Recessed Gotoh 510 cavity

[supertruper1988]

Also as an FYI, the Gotoh 510 in Charvel guitars has a shorter block. I am not sure if a standard block would stick out the back of a guitar if it was recesses into the top.

 

[aarontunes]

Also as an FYI, the Gotoh 510 in Charvel guitars has a shorter block. I am not sure if a standard block would stick out the back of a guitar if it was recesses into the top.

Yes, another thing to consider. These seemingly simple things come with lots of baggage attached, don't they?

We could maybe do a semi-recessed thing w/ the 510, but honestly I have never thought it looked very good. We've been on a bit of an R&D freeze for a few years now. Since the pandemic and the fallout it left in its wake we are still not back to a place where we have the bandwidth to work new offerings.

We are just now starting to do some limited runs again...the first time in a long time. We have some pretty neat stuff coming up.

 

[PFDarkside]

Does the semi recessed wilkinson route work with the 510 to provide more pull up range? Just a random thought on this after seeing this thread last week.

The stud spacing on the Wilkinson route and the 510 route is slightly different if I recall correctly.

 

[supertruper1988]

The stud spacing on the Wilkinson route and the 510 route is slightly different if I recall correctly.

Indeed they are. I know that both bridges have a flat spot for some variation in studs but its not a huge range. Might be a "buy and try" situation hmmmmm.

 

[cromulent]

Maybe this is a hot take, but I've been a strat wielder for many many decades and I definitely pull up on the trem more than push down.

Do I understand that the Gotoh 510 has issues with this unless the route is recessed? I was planning on putting the 510 on my next strat build just to check it out, but not sure I want to if this is really the case...

 

[supertruper1988]

Maybe this is a hot take, but I've been a strat wielder for many many decades and I definitely pull up on the trem more than push down.

Do I understand that the Gotoh 510 has issues with this unless the route is recessed? I was planning on putting the 510 on my next strat build just to check it out, but not sure I want to if this is really the case...

"issue" is a loose term. The recessed Floyd thing started because Via wanted more pullup range compared to the standard top mounted floyd. "top mounted" was also a loose term and was a range from the bridge sitting on the body allowing for down-only dives to the Jackson/Charvel style where the floyd sat up off the body and had some pull up range. It also felt like a TOM bridge because the neck was angled relative to the top of the body to accomplish this.

But wait, this is a thread about Gotoh 510 bridges? Yeah the same thing applies here. The Fender vintage strat bridge and the modern 2 post are designed to be setup leaning forward where the bridge plate is not parallel to the body. This allows some pretty decent pull up range. The Gotoh is designed for the bridge plate to be parallel which does limit the pull up range but I have always set them up like a Fender bridge if I want it to float and not be down only.

The recessed or semi recessed thing is because guys are using these to do all kinds of trem tricks that have previously be only done on floyds but the locking tuner and bridge tech has advanced a bunch in the last 40 years to solve some of the problems that a floyd solved in new ways.

 

[PFDarkside]

The 510 seems like the ultimate evolved version of the American Standard 2 post. Overall it’s a great design that eliminates a lot of the issues with the vintage style, while keeping a more vintage feel and dispensing with all the annoying things with a Floyd. The fact that you can get stamped steel saddles for vintage tone, smooth saddles for a better feel or locking saddles for more stability means it’s a great base to customize to your preference.

I’ve set up 2 posts (the locking style that Fender had years ago) to get a half step pull-up on the e, full step pull up on b and minor third pull-up on g. Any more pitch raising and honestly I’d just go for a Floyd. If you get the locking saddles that Aaron demoed a year ago and setup to hit the pitches I did, you’d have a great, stable Strat. (In fact I did with that locking 2 post Fender/Floyd trem years ago!)

 

[stratamania]

locking saddles for more stability

Unless something has changed recently, Gotoh does not offer locking saddles for the 510. Wilkinson makes a bridge similar to the 510 with locking saddles the Wilkinson WVS 1302 or sells locking saddles that will retrofit a 510 and a number of other bridges but they are not made by Gotoh but are made in Korea. An excellent bridge which is used on my Green Mahogany strat.

 

[Conquistador]

The Gotoh 510 is such a beautiful tremolo. Recessed cavities are a delight.

 

[Rumbletone]

My #1 for the last decade is a Suhr Modern with a 510. The recess isn't deep, but it's enough that I can get a few semi-tones up-pull (varies by string). I use it a lot - not for extreme whammy effects, but for things like melodic bends - usually a half step or whole step - and sometimes for warbles. And when I use it for vibrato I go up and down (learned for decades of using Bigsbys). I also hate when trem bridge clanks again the body, and the soft pad in the recessed area stops it from doing that. So while I understand that some players don't see the utility, for me a recessed 510 has been ideal!

I'm currently planing a Warmoth build, and since I can't get a recessed route for a 510 I'm considering a VegaTrem, which is designed to pull up with a standard Strat route. Has anyone tried a VegaTrem on a standard Warmoth trem route?

 

[johnnyj]

i used a vegatrem on a gotoh route in my warmoth telecaster, it worked fine routing wise (even if there was a bout 1mm gap at the end of the tremolo that would not be needed, maybe this would be gone if you go with the american standard tremolo route, but thats just a thought).
if you pause this video at 0:57 you can see how it looks:

i was however not very happy with the vegatrem and switched it in the end. main issues for me:

- the saddles have some stupid sharp edges that hurt the picking hand. i finally fixed it butchering it with a file which ruined ofc the nice chrome optic but it was worth the playability advantage
- fluttering behaviour of this unit is not as nice as gotoh. while some players dont need it, other even hate it, i love the flutter and need it
- when installing it as designed horizontally paralell to the body, i was a bit disappointed by the available throw when divebombing. this is surely caused because the unit is so small and the available way the string tension gets lowered when tremoloing is way smaller then e.g. in a floyd unit. the bend up way on the other hand is immensely huge compared to other trems, i think even such which have a recess.
- the sound of the unit stole some strat/tele character compared to a 510, not sure why this is the case (probably saddle design/material). again, some might like it, for me it sounded comparable to a wilkinson vs100 which also removed a bit of the strat honkiness for some more sustain and predictability of the tone. i personally disliked this.

at all this is a really good bridge, what is also really good is that you can move it in a perfect position to have the strings run perfectly edge to edge and it make the impression of being indestructible. the arm collar design, where so many tremolos suck, is also really good. but overall i have to say, i would prefer a gotoh 510 or a schaller original tremolo all day over this unit.

 

[bagman67]

I so want one of these!!!!

They're pretty dang good-lookin' guitars. The pearlescent ice-cream-pink version is gorgeous, too.

 

[LinguaFranka]

Unless something has changed recently, Gotoh does not offer locking saddles for the 510.

They do now.

All the models with the 'LS' suffix.

@aarontunes Bring on the recessed route for the 510 please.

 

[aarontunes]

@aarontunes Bring on the recessed route for the 510 please.

This likely won't happen. We've already looked into it. For more context check out this video:

 

[LinguaFranka]

This likely won't happen. We've already looked into it. For more context check out this video:

Thanks for the reply, at least I can order the 510 route and have a local luthier do more work to get it where I want (if needed).

Out of interest, what is the pull up range of the current 510 route?
I'm only really looking for moderate to wide, above and below pitch vibrato.

 

[alexreinhold]

I recently ordered a new body with a Gotoh 510 tremolo cavity. I also have. Charvel DK24 and I truly love the recess. It feels like pull up works just fine and it's not as clunky as a Floyd is.

That said, to all the experts - would a good luthier be able to manipulate the cavity in a reliable manner to allow for recess? Or would you rather say "no way Jose"?

 

[stratamania]

They do now.

All the models with the 'LS' suffix.

@aarontunes Bring on the recessed route for the 510 please.

What a difference a year makes

Interesting, the allen nut on the Gotoh LS seems to lock a clamp down which in turn locks the string, versus the Wilkinson where the allen nut locks the string directly.

 

[rainfall]

Out of interest, what is the pull up range of the current 510 route?
I'm only really looking for moderate to wide, above and below pitch vibrato.

The range is ridiculously low for pulls. You can pull maybe 1/2 step in most cases
Even if you do some tricks like raising the posts, the base plate close to the arm has a little bump that greatly limits the pulls if it's not recessed - see my other guitar with a 2-point 510.

I think Warmoth should do this recessed thing... not saying it's simple but a lot of people want it.

 

[BeachTurtle]

Warmoth feature request:

Can the Gotoh 510 cavity be recessed? Images from Ibanez AZ shown with this type of cavity.

Great request! I would have loved for the koa body I purchased to have had been recessed for the gotoh bridge. I am used to the OFR recessed routing. Perhaps this will be considered.

 

[BeachTurtle]

But why

just for the aesthetic?

Realistically, does someone going to pull back on one like a F to the Lloyd?

I may be the only odd duck in this forum but yes I would love to be able to pull back on it like a Floyd Rose. Maybe I could have this done in the future by a professional... hmm.. thank you, thats great food for thought.