"Real" 24 fret necks and body routes

Would you be interested in a "real" 24 fret neck option


  • Total voters
    28

JA93

New member
Messages
6
Hello! So, after getting so excited about Warmoth and building a guitar to my own specifications: A Soloist body, HSH, 24 SS jumbo frets, thin C neck profile and I was even going to sculpt my own neck heel, I came to realise that the 24 fret option is not what I really expected it to be. It isnt a "real" 24 fret neck, which was a real let down.

I guess first Ill tell you what I mean by a "real" 24 fret neck. It is a neck where the heel is positioned so none (or very little) of the fretboard is overhanging, and logically to accommodate this the routes on the body are also shifted.

Why I love "real" 24 fret guitars is first of all the fret access. With the repositioned body routes and neck heel being under all of the last frets, reaching the 20+ frets is a breeze, in comparison, when I play a 22 fretter, I feel handicapped and limited. Secondly is simply the extra playable notes without being forced to bend. Third is the continuity, 22 frets seems an odd number to me and the neck feels as if its stopping abruptly. Having 2 whole octaves to play with puts my mind at ease, it makes sense in my head and when Im playing. Fourth is based on what I have read on the internet so it may or may not be true. Apparently with the fretboard floating, the notes dont ring as true as those lower on the neck with wood underneath them. Unfortunately with the 24 fret extension I feel that none of these issues are avoided or resolved, other than that they are there to played.

I also want to make a note that I am not suggesting "Ibanez" this or "Jackson" that, which from checking for similar posts is what people are asking for. Its just a suggestion to have the option to have "real" 24 fret neck and body and I would LOVE it if Warmoth had the option. For now Im kind of stuck, nobody makes a guitar that Im completely happy with without shelling out 3-4k which is ridiculous IMO. Maybe Ill just have to suck it up, but I hope one day Warmoth can make me really happy! :hello2:

What are your thoughts? And please vote. If you know anybody who would like this option too, let them know to vote.

Thanks for reading all of my words.  :eek:ccasion14:
 

sixstringsamurai

Senior member
Messages
702
Altar said:
Nobody needs more than 22 frets...

:toothy12:
Amen Brother!

:icon_biggrin:

that and NO ONE needs more than six strings either...
Unless your a bass player, then you only NEED four.
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
I've never felt a need for 24 frets, but high access is always a Good Thing. I don't know how people play the upper register on Les Pauls without getting carpal tunnel syndrome. I've seen acoustics with better access.

I do agree about the symmetry thing, though. Somehow, having two full octaves on the board just seems like it would be a natural thing to have, even if you can't/don't use them.
 

croquet hoop

Senior member
Messages
443
This is the perfect thread to start a debate on the sound of a neck pickup on a guitar with 22 or 24 frets  :icon_jokercolor:
 
Messages
8,318
It's been brought up before, but I don't recall if W or the mods have ever commented, so we're left to speculate.  My best guess is compatibility issues.  Their delving into the shortscale and Bass VI stuff, their neck only fits their body...and they're a replacement parts company.  In the case of the Bass VI, the options are left wanting by many, and probably by design as so not to really compete with Fender.  In the case of your Soloist, you ordered and built it and self admittedly say you were surprised with the 24th fret construction.  Imagine multiple bodies with multiple necks that aren't compatible and the s-storm that ensues.  "Why does my real 24 fret neck not intonate on my Strat body?" We already have a neck thread where someone is unhappy with getting exactly what they ordered.  A lot of the stuff they already do, I'd like to see more options for instead of introducing more things that will open more doors to not go far enough to satisfy people.


The 2 octave thing, I can see where you're coming from, but most do not play in keys of only the open strings and run scales up one string only to resolve on the root. 
 

Hbom

Senior member
Messages
377
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Imagine multiple bodies with multiple necks that aren't compatible and the s-storm that ensues. 

You mean like eBay?
 

JA93

New member
Messages
6
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
It's been brought up before, but I don't recall if W or the mods have ever commented, so we're left to speculate.  My best guess is compatibility issues.  Their delving into the shortscale and Bass VI stuff, their neck only fits their body...and they're a replacement parts company.  In the case of the Bass VI, the options are left wanting by many, and probably by design as so not to really compete with Fender.  In the case of your Soloist, you ordered and built it and self admittedly say you were surprised with the 24th fret construction.  Imagine multiple bodies with multiple necks that aren't compatible and the s-storm that ensues.  "Why does my real 24 fret neck not intonate on my Strat body?" We already have a neck thread where someone is unhappy with getting exactly what they ordered.  A lot of the stuff they already do, I'd like to see more options for instead of introducing more things that will open more doors to not go far enough to satisfy people.


The 2 octave thing, I can see where you're coming from, but most do not play in keys of only the open strings and run scales up one string only to resolve on the root.

Oh I never actually ordered it, its quite clear that its just an extension. Im just disappointed with the 24 fret option and I doubt Ill ever order one. If they had the option of real 24 fret necks, Id probably never buy a new guitar elsewhere ever again.

I cant imagine it would be difficult to organize the site to incorporate 24 fret options. Maybe they could add a whole new category. Along with Strat/Tele/Vintage/Modern/Warmoth/Double styles they could add "24 fret style". And maybe the odd prompt that guides people. Maybe get rid of the whole fretboard extension thing in favour of a real 24 fret option. At the moment when building a body the option is " 24 fret reposition" and only the pickup routes are moved. But they could reposition the neck joint and bridge too. Plus make any neck that has 24 frets "real". I dont see any problems. :dontknow:
 

greywolf

Senior member
Messages
1,085
I use 24 fret necks on all my builds , I get them from Carvin. 
Even with the neck throughs , I still modify the heel location to allow for full easy access to all frets .  (typically moving it closer to the bridge a couple of inches)

I still like Warmoths body blanks and use them frequently .
 
Messages
8,318
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
Yeah, I don't see it, either. Inventory is already a bitch for any manufacturer and the more unique each part gets the longer it sits on the shelf waiting for just the right situation for it to sell. That's dead money, and nobody likes that. Even at the ridiculously low interest rates anyone pays these days, you'd be better off putting your money in a savings account rather than inventory that doesn't move.
 

JA93

New member
Messages
6
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.

If Im right in understanding, surely all this could be avoided with a well designed website? Its all about communication, if people are getting confused then its not clear enough.

To Cagey, you have a good point but so far in my poll (very limited, I know) the interest rate is at least 50/50.
 

Wyliee

Senior member
Messages
1,931
JA93 said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.

If Im right in understanding, surely all this could be avoided with a well designed website? Its all about communication, if people are getting confused then its not clear enough.

To Cagey, you have a good point but so far in my poll (very limited, I know) the interest rate is at least 50/50.

You're presuming people would be bothered to read the website and that would be a false presumption.

Super Turbo pretty well hit the nail on the head.
 

JA93

New member
Messages
6
Wyliee said:
JA93 said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.

If Im right in understanding, surely all this could be avoided with a well designed website? Its all about communication, if people are getting confused then its not clear enough.

To Cagey, you have a good point but so far in my poll (very limited, I know) the interest rate is at least 50/50.

You're presuming people would be bothered to read the website and that would be a false presumption.

Super Turbo pretty well hit the nail on the head.

This is unfortunately probably true, but there must be a way to fix this? A well organized website SHOULD fix the whole problem of mismatched parts. But assuming some people will just order willy nilly anyway, there could maybe be a tick box at the end reminding them to check their parts, or show them with a warning that their parts are incompatible together and if they continue and it turns out wrong then all the fault lies on them. Warmoth is not obligated to refund/swap whatever.

Im just trying my best to find a way around the problems.
 

Wyliee

Senior member
Messages
1,931
JA93 said:
Wyliee said:
JA93 said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.

If Im right in understanding, surely all this could be avoided with a well designed website? Its all about communication, if people are getting confused then its not clear enough.

To Cagey, you have a good point but so far in my poll (very limited, I know) the interest rate is at least 50/50.

You're presuming people would be bothered to read the website and that would be a false presumption.

Super Turbo pretty well hit the nail on the head.

This is unfortunately probably true. But there must be a way to fix this? A well organized website SHOULD fix the whole problem of mismatched parts. But assuming some people will just order willy nilly anyway, there could maybe be a tick box at the end reminding them to check their parts, or show them with a warning that their parts are incompatible together and if they continue and it turns out wrong then all the fault lies on them. Warmoth is not obligated to refund/swap whatever.

Im just trying my best to find a way around the problems. If it really wont work then ok.. :( But until I find out thats true Ill keep going.

I realize you're new to the forums... Welcome to the forum...

With the formalities out of the way, I will be blunt... Do you have any customer service experience?  Business experience???  The hard reality is that people don't read even if you put a checkbox in front of them.  It happens all the time.  Sure, it *is* the customer's fault, but most customers don't care.

Take a closer look at the instrument industry in general and take note of the incompatibilities from manufacturer to manufacturer, even within their own product lines.  It doesn't make sense to muddy the waters even more.
 

Johnny

Senior member
Messages
271
You can't really check if they order the body and neck on separate orders.  Or someone orders a 24 fret neck for they're MIM.  Of course, I shouldn't be giving any good arguments for not doing it because I would really like to see 24 fret necks offered.  I'm another nobody  :icon_jokercolor:
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
Not only separate orders, but for different things. I always have somewhere between 1 and 4 guitars in process around here. How is the website logic or Warmoth's sales people's intuition supposed to know what I'm ordering for or why? I pays my munny and I makes my choice. It's not up to them to second guess me, even if they could. I might even be ordering a neck or body just because I like it and don't expect to see a similar part show up, not because it's committed to anything in the pipe. Been known to happen.
 

JA93

New member
Messages
6
Wyliee said:
JA93 said:
Wyliee said:
JA93 said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Again, I don't think they will for compatibility issues.  Only that neck will fit that body.  Their 7/8 stuff, technically those necks work as conversion necks for the 24" stuff and vice versa.  Their shortscale basses, 2 necks fit that body.  Their standard scale stuff, a conversion neck and baritone neck both fit it.  With a real 24 fretter, it would only fit that body, then sales would be the only prevention for customer wrong ordering. 

We haven't seen them on the forum, but I'm sure customers have already sent livid emails and phone calls about their Bass VI bodies not intonating with Fender necks, 7/8 Warhead necks not intonating on their 25.5" scale Strats, etc., etc.

If Im right in understanding, surely all this could be avoided with a well designed website? Its all about communication, if people are getting confused then its not clear enough.

To Cagey, you have a good point but so far in my poll (very limited, I know) the interest rate is at least 50/50.

You're presuming people would be bothered to read the website and that would be a false presumption.

Super Turbo pretty well hit the nail on the head.

This is unfortunately probably true. But there must be a way to fix this? A well organized website SHOULD fix the whole problem of mismatched parts. But assuming some people will just order willy nilly anyway, there could maybe be a tick box at the end reminding them to check their parts, or show them with a warning that their parts are incompatible together and if they continue and it turns out wrong then all the fault lies on them. Warmoth is not obligated to refund/swap whatever.

Im just trying my best to find a way around the problems. If it really wont work then ok.. :( But until I find out thats true Ill keep going.

I realize you're new to the forums... Welcome to the forum...

With the formalities out of the way, I will be blunt... Do you have any customer service experience?  Business experience???  The hard reality is that people don't read even if you put a checkbox in front of them.  It happens all the time.  Sure, it *is* the customer's fault, but most customers don't care.

Take a closer look at the instrument industry in general and take note of the incompatibilities from manufacturer to manufacturer, even within their own product lines.  It doesn't make sense to muddy the waters even more.

No I dont have any experience in those areas, I understand more goes on than meets the eye but I had to try anyway. I cant help but think to hell with people who buy things blindly, but if its a bad business decision then it makes sense Warmoth would go that way. Arrgh. So close to a perfect guitar...
 
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