Röde Baronen - take 2

[Sovereign_13]

I agree.  What I am suggesting is the body is smaller relative to the normal body than the neck is relative to a normal neck. If any one has both, an overall length measurement of the body vs overall length measurement of the neck would validate or negate this thought.

If my understanding of the explanatory videos is correct, the 7/8 neck is the same size as a normal neck.  So it would be longer than normal relative to the smaller body.  The smaller 7/8 body (and subsequent bridge placement) allow you to have a 24.75" scale.  Whether or not the difference is enough to induce neck dive, I don't know.

The conversion necks are different lengths because they're designed to work with all standard-size bodies, so the bridge placement becomes a fixed variable and the neck length must be adjusted to give different scale lengths.  Of course, I don't have access to any of them to verify, but that's how I understand the explanations given by double A in the videos.

 

[Cagey]

...the bridge placement becomes a fixed variable and the neck length must be adjusted to give different scale lengths.

Just because I'm feeling sassy today, I have to point out that a "fixed variable" is an oxymoron. If something doesn't change, it's called a "constant"  :laughing7:

 

[Sovereign_13]

...the bridge placement becomes a fixed variable and the neck length must be adjusted to give different scale lengths.

Just because I'm feeling sassy today, I have to point out that a "fixed variable" is an oxymoron. If something doesn't change, it's called a "constant"  :laughing7:

:doh: 

 

[TBurst Std]

...the bridge placement becomes a fixed variable and the neck length must be adjusted to give different scale lengths.

Just because I'm feeling sassy today, I have to point out that a "fixed variable" is an oxymoron. If something doesn't change, it's called a "constant"  :laughing7:

You win the internet for the day!

 

[Logrinn]

Well, to make things more complicated, the neck(s) on my 7/8-Tele is not a 7/8-neck, ie a 25,5" scale neck with a 24,75" scale fretboard.
No, I use the 24" scale Mustang necks. And since these are shorter, they would perhaps equal somewhat a normal size Tele paired with a standard 25,5" Tele (or Strat) neck.
But somehow they don't. Not the ones I've got anyway.
I'll shoot some video this coming weekend of the neck dive I had with the bloodwood and the neck dive I have now with the roasted maple neck and let you guys see/judge for yourselves.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Well, if you assume that the Mustang/Jaguar bodies would be the appropriate scale if you used a standard neck, then the 24" scale neck would have to be shorter by 1.5".

Likewise, if the 7/8 body uses a standard-length neck laid out for a 24.75" scale, you would assume that the bridge is 0.75" closer to the neck pocket to accommodate that scale length.

So if all those assumptions hold true, a 7/8 body with a Mustang neck would be ~23.25"-scale?  And the neck would actually be shorter relative to the body than a standard-size and scale guitar (assuming the entire body is 0.75" shorter, and not just the scale length)?  That's how the math apperas to work, but the difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there's no difference, while in practice, there is.  :icon_scratch:  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[amon]

[quote author=stratamania]Thinking out of the box solution for neck dive, put some lead sheet in a body cavity and restore the balance.
[/quote]
Won't work.  Think of a guitar body in quadrants.

In order to affect the balance, you need to add weight in the top-left Red quadrant, and as far to the upper left of that quadrant as possible.  Adding weight in any other quadrant will either not affect the balance at all, or make it worse.

Alternatively, you could adjust the placement of your rear strap button within the range of that same quadrant.  You'd essentially be redistributing the weight that is already there to fix the problem.  This is how I have the strap buttons located on all my Tele-style guitars...

... which also eliminates any twisting in the strap, by forcing it to lie flat against my body.

 

[Logrinn]

I like that.
That is actually a solution I've been contemplating - moving the back strap button. Perhaps not so much as you've done, but further up the "red quadrant".

 

[stratamania]

[quote author=stratamania]Thinking out of the box solution for neck dive, put some lead sheet in a body cavity and restore the balance.

Won't work.  Think of a guitar body in quadrants.
[/quote]

It was a tongue in cheek comment.

But if we want to discuss it. It could work as I never said which body cavity or where it is located. Also, where is the point of balance that is trying to be achieved and for whom?

Sorry but the quadrant thing I am not buying. If the body is of sufficient weight the neck will not dive. Sure if it has already dived you may have to push down on the upper quadrant to reposition it, but if you wanted to stop it diving in the first place weight in the red or blue quadrant or distributed across both is likely to work just as well. 

Or horror of horrors get a heavy enough body in the first place.

 

[amon]

I'm totally with you on just getting a sufficiently heavy guitar.  I never liked a Parker Fly because it felt like nothing.  Most hollow bodies and semi-hollows don't work for me.  I've currently got a Chapman ML-1 Hotrod (Floyded Super Strat) that I feel like is too light — I want some "opposition" (for lack of a better description) when I hit a guitar, and it doesn't give very much of that.  But I cut up a few guitars figuring out the quadrant idea.  Adding weight in the Yellow or Blue will have almost no effect on fixing neck dive.  Adding weight in the Green will make it worse (or conversely, hollowing out the Green area will help, but since that bout is typically so small, removing a couple of ounces there won't make a huge difference).