Röde Baronen - take 2

[Logrinn]

It was time for an update on my 7/8 Tele for a couple of reasons.
The main one being that the body is very light - a chambered alder body - and the neck is very heavy.
That plus the fact that a Tele doesn't have the ergonomics of a Strat means that it had major neck dive issues. Not just standing up - I experienced this while sitting down playing it too.

So I got a new roasted maple neck.

The old one - a bloodwood neck with ebony fretboard - weighed 1014 grams (that's 2.235 lbs) with tuners.

The new roasted maple weighed 776 gram (1.711 lbs), also with tuners.

When I had swapped the neck, the neck dive didn't disappear, but it got much better.
Now it's it mostly apparent when I play standing up and let go of the neck. Sitting down is no longer an issue.

Another reason for swapping the neck is that I wanted to try a neck with another type of frets.
So in my mind I went back in time to my first proper guitar, a Gibson SG, that I've always had fond memories of. That's why I decided to get 6130 frets on the new neck.
As can be seen here, there's quite the difference between the SS6105's on the old neck and the new 6130's on the new neck.

New and old:

Oh, and as a side note ... the body, with pickups and electronis, weighs 1926 grams (4.239 lbs)

And another side note ... I checked the pilot holes on the new neck. They seem to be the same depth and shouldn't cause any problem when you screw on the neck to the body. Especially with some bees wax.
BUT - and this might be important for others out there - I had a contoured heel on that body. That means 2 things. You need to have shorter screws for the two forward screws. BUT the two other screws are the normal length. AND the hole in the body nearest the cutaway and furthest back is also slightly shorter since the contour reaches a bit here as well. That means that this screw hits the "bottom" of the pilot hole when you screw it in. This hole needs to be drillled an additional 2 mm or there about. Then it's no problem screwing in that screw even if it's a roasted maple neck.

I found out the hard way, when I installed the original bloodwood neck (twice as hard as maple). When screwing in this screw the wood cracked because the pilot hole ends about 2 mm before the screw reaches it's limit.

So let that be a warning ccasion14:

Back to my shredding ...  :guitarplayer2:

 

[rgand]

The new neck looks good. How do you like the 6130 frets compared to the 6105's? Have you considered cutting the headstock down to a Tele headstock? That could reduce the weight of the neck out where it counts.

 

[Logrinn]

I like the 6130's very much. It feels a bit like coming home, but at the same time it feels quite different from the 6105's. There's a big difference in how these frets feel when I play them since the height differs quite a bit.
But I'll probably get 6130's on my next neck as well.

No, I haven't considered cutting the headstock. I'm not a big fan of Tele headstocks. I actually think they're pretty ugly :laughing7:

But it's no biggie. I've got a 7/8 Tele. it sounds good, plays great, but I won't be getting another Tele again. They just don't resonate with me. I'll get another 7/8 Strat instead.

 

[rgand]

I like the 6130's very much. It feels a bit like coming home, but at the same time it feels quite different from the 6105's. There's a big difference in how these frets feel when I play them since the height differs quite a bit.
But I'll probably get 6130's on my next neck as well.

No, I haven't considered cutting the headstock. I'm not a big fan of Tele headstocks. I actually think they're pretty ugly :laughing7:

But it's no biggie. I've got a 7/8 Tele. it sounds good, plays great, but I won't be getting another Tele again. They just don't resonate with me. I'll get another 7/8 Strat instead.

My Tele has little skinny frets on it. They are a step above laying a piece of string across the neck.  :icon_biggrin:

What about routing out the center of the headstock from the back so it's lighter but still the same shape?

 

[bagman67]

Hey, Logrinn -


Gotoh Stealth might make your life easier.


Here's a fella's story of installing them on a Warmoth neck:  http://www.tdpri.com/threads/wenge-ebony-t-style-buildup.442684/


Available at LMII and lots of other places. 



http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-not-wood/tuning-machines/steel-string-tuners/gotoh-stealth-tuners

 

[Logrinn]

Hi Rgand and Bagman. Thanks for your replies. I do know of those stealth tuners, but I honestly don’t think those or routing out the headstock will do much difference. I might be wrong but the Tele shape seems to me that it will always suffer from neck dive. I dunno ...
I might do an experiment when I change strings next and remove the tuners and check for neck dive then.
I’ll keep you guys posted.

 

[Cagey]

I've never heard of neck dive on a Tele. Although, I know of an upcoming build that's going to have a Brazilian Ebony neck that weighs 2.2lbs, so if it was ever going to happen I'd call that a prime candidate. But, I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Kostas]

Hi Rgand and Bagman. Thanks for your replies. I do know of those stealth tuners, but I honestly don’t think those or routing out the headstock will do much difference. I might be wrong but the Tele shape seems to me that it will always suffer from neck dive. I dunno ...
I might do an experiment when I change strings next and remove the tuners and check for neck dive then.
I’ll keep you guys posted.

The Stealth tuners will make some difference. I have two Telecasters, both have no contours, hollow body is 4.02 lbs & solid body is 3.14 lbs. No neck dive either sitting or standing.

 

[Logrinn]

Don’t forget that Röde Baronen is a 7/8-Tele. The smaller body might have something to do the neck dive I’m experiencing.  :dontknow:

 

[bagman67]

I've never heard of neck dive on a Tele. Although, I know of an upcoming build that's going to have a Brazilian Ebony neck that weighs 2.2lbs, so if it was ever going to happen I'd call that a prime candidate. But, I'm not too worried about it.

It's a 7/8 scale guitar, so the geometry's going to be a little different from a full-sized axe.  It doesn't surprise me at all that the bloodwood neck dove.

 

[Cagey]

I forgot it was the 7/8 part. No experience with those at all, but I'm sure you're right - gonna be easier to overbalance it.

 

[TBurst Std]

Being I’m the one with that BE neck Cagey mentioned, I’m hoping I don’t have neck dive. 
I thought the neck was heavy when I received it.  But the price was right in the showcase.  I had originally specced Pao Ferro but I never see those in the contours I want.  Wanted a brighter tone, dark colored wood. 

 

[Cagey]

That neck took the 1st place heavyweight champion belt away from my Ebony over Bloodwood neck, which is 2.0lbs all up. It's currently on a Strat, was on a VIP before, but in either case those body designs are such that you'd need to hang an anvil off the headstock to overbalance them.

 

[stratamania]

I like the look of the Baron, better with its new neck.

Thinking out of the box solution for neck dive, put some lead sheet in a body cavity and restore the balance.

 

[Sovereign_13]

I like the look of the Baron, better with its new neck.

Thinking out of the box solution for neck dive, put some lead sheet in a body cavity and restore the balance.

Just call it "shielding".    :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Cagey]

Never know when you might be bombarded with x-rays and need to protect your junk  :laughing7:

 

[stratamania]

Never know when you might be bombarded with x-rays and need to protect your junk  :laughing7:

Yes or there is the Lex variant, using Kryptonite but its a bit too easy to get overbalanced quickly with that stuff :laughing7:

 

[TBurst Std]

Was thinking, then calculating.  If the body is truly 7/8, then the corresponding neck would equal less than 23 inches for a Std 25.5/24.75 conversion neck. 
Something to be aware of on 7/8 scale, possible neck dive. 

 

[Sovereign_13]

Was thinking, then calculating.  If the body is truly 7/8, then the corresponding neck would equal less than 23 inches for a Std 25.5/24.75 conversion neck. 
Something to be aware of on 7/8 scale, possible neck dive. 

I don't think it's really that kind of scale since the bodies use standard hardware.  They're slightly smaller, but it's not a 7:8 scale of a "standard" guitar the way a model might be 1:16 scale.  In fact, in the video about 7/8 products, double A mentions that the 7/8 neck uses the same neck blank as a standard 25.5" scale neck, but laid out in 24.75" scale.

I think 7/8 might be marketing speak for "shorter scale, slightly smaller"?

 

[TBurst Std]

I agree.  What I am suggesting is the body is smaller relative to the normal body than the neck is relative to a normal neck. If any one has both, an overall length measurement of the body vs overall length measurement of the neck would validate or negate this thought.