Problem fitting ferrules for Tele

[Stew]

Thought I'd try fitting the ferrules for my new tele using the soldering iron trick. It's a showcase body and they are Warmoth supplied ferrules so I thought they should fit in pretty easily once the ferrule was heated.

NO!  :tard:

Should've measured first, but you can see from the pics that the ferrule is definitely too big for the hole. Ferrules measure 8.3mm/0.33" and the holes are more like 7.6mm/0.3".

Is there an easy way to open the hole up without damaging the finish or otherwise making a mess of my beautiful new tele?

Btw, the pic looks worse than it is. The finish has melted quite uniformly and when the ferrule is in place it will all be covered. The wood is a little compressed where I tired to jam it in but I think it'll be ok.

 

[Updown]

Hi Stew  :icon_biggrin:

I'm doing theses ferrels too, top & back ones (on my Black quilt Strat) my 1st at doing these. Using the ferrels from W

Last night I used a small round file VERY SLOWLY & ONLY ON THE DOWNSTROKE (Don't want to rip out or pull up the finish)

Used sandpaper also, to get rid of some finish built up around the hole. I noticed there was a small lip of overhang finish in the holes.

Now they are all ready to be tapped lightly in, using a phillips head screwdriver in the Back ferrels.
Front small ferrels I have a very small pointed screwdriver that will use to tap those in. (With the shaft doing the pushing of)

I didn't like the sound of doing the soldering iron trick, even thou some have done that way..... just me !!

Cheers  ccasion14:

 

[SustainerPlayer]

I done it a few times this way:

I use a small knife to remove panit/finish around the hole.

I put a small piece of towel/fabric over the ferrule and bang it in (gently) with a hammer.

 

[Stew]

Thanks guys.

I don't think the hammer is gonna do it SP. Note the amount of wood that's left ... you can see where the ferrule has tried to press in ... it's pretty wide.

I might have to try the round file ... just worried about damaging the finish. Maybe if I roll some sandpaper up so that it is conical in shape and stick the tip in each hole. Would I be able to regulate how much of the finish that takes off without taking out too much wood?

Appreciate any other thoughts anyone has. I probably won't get to this for a few days and would like to weigh up as many options as possible.

 

[Cagey]

Should've measured first, but you can see from the pics that the ferrule is definitely too big for the hole. Ferrules measure 8.3mm/0.33" and the holes are more like 7.6mm/0.3". Is there an easy way to open the hole up without damaging the finish or otherwise making a mess of my beautiful new tele?

Here's what I'd do. No guarantees, but it ought to work out ok. I've done it with other things.

What you need is a drill press, a 21/64" brad point drill, a 21/64" twist drill, and some serious patience.

What you need to do is locate the body under the drill very precisely. The hole is already drilled, so you'll have to look at it from several angles to make sure it's centered. Then, move the quill down until the bit barely touches the finish, and turn the chuck by hand to score it. Add a little pressure, and cut it some more. Do that until you're sure you're through the finish, then remove the drill. You will have never have powered up the press; this is all by hand. Don't move the body yet.

Brad points don't drill flat bottomed holes, per se. What they're good for is cutting the sides of a hole before it digs into the meat so you end up with clean holes, and all you want is that feature, not the drilling part.

Once you have a the finish cut with the brad point, you now install the twist drill, and use that to cut the hole. Be you've set your depth stop so you don't end up with ferrules at different heights. Drill the hole out the depth of the ferrule's flange, and the finish won't get chipped because the edges are already cut.

Best case, you take a fine riffler file, and smooth out the edges of the hole a bit. I mean, just kiss 'em. Otherwise, while you may not have chipped it now, those edges are going to be sharp and may catch on something eventually, which may pull a chunk out.

Press in your ferrules, and you're good to go.

 

[Stew]

... is it doable without a drill press? I don't have one and I don't know anyone who has one.

 

[Cagey]

... is it doable without a drill press? I don't have one and I don't know anyone who has one.

I wouldn't try it. Seriously.

The whole trick relies very heavily on accuracy of placement and pressure, as well as repeatability. Without a press to hold the everything in perfect alignment while you make gradual and slow moves, you'll certainly make things worse rather than better.

You might want to check out Stewart-MacDonald's or Luthier's Mercantile for alternative ferrules. There are several different styles and sizes out there, and one of theirs may work out better for the holes you have. Failing that, you might want to consider not counter-sinking them. Outside of aesthetics, there's no reason to do it, and hardly anybody ever sees them anyway.

 

[Stew]

Cagey ... thanks again for your thoughts.

Countersinking? ... no countersinking involved here brother, just trying to get the bloody things in ... I'm quite happy to have the rim sit proud of the surface.

I just don't understand why there needs to be so much frickin around with this given that Warmoth drilled the holes AND supplied the (supposedly) appropriate ferrules?  :dontknow:

I'll have a look for some other ferrules to see if that might be the easiest solution. Otherwise I guess I'm gonna have to find someone to drill the holes out for me ... that's gonna cost time & money ... not happy!

 

[SustainerPlayer]

I don't think the hammer is gonna do it SP. Note the amount of wood that's left ... you can see where the ferrule has tried to press in ... it's pretty wide.

It looks the same as when I've have done it. Be confident.

 

[Stew]

I don't think the hammer is gonna do it SP. Note the amount of wood that's left ... you can see where the ferrule has tried to press in ... it's pretty wide.

It looks the same as when I've have done it. Be confident.

But I'm scared  :sad1:

Seriously, I haven't done much of this kind of stuff and I really don't wanna screw it up. The finish looks so nice.

OK, so who thinks SustainerPlayer's suggestion is the way to go ... raise your hands?

Or should I try something like this:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/fender/150706-how-adapt-mighty-mite-telecaster-body-5-16-fender-string-ferrules.html

 

[Cagey]

I thought you were trying to countersink them. From the looks of the pictures, those holes are substantially smaller than the ferrules you're trying to install.

It does make things a little easier, though. You don't need to drill the holes twice. A single shot with a brad point will do the trick. Just drill them deep enough to accommodate the length of the ferrule, and you should be good to go. Normally, I like to use Forstner bits for such work, but they don't come in finer sizes; they usually move in 1/8" increments from one size to the next, starting at 1/4". Also, bear in mind that those ferrules should be tight. A loose fit will eat up high end and sustain.

In fact, knowing this now, I'd say you could do it with a hand-held drill motor and a twist drill if you're very, very careful to keep everything square. Use a 5/16" drill so the hole stays tight, and tape over the existing openings so you don't chip the paint much. Also, put some tape on the drill bit to mark the depth of the hole you're going to drill so you don't go too far. What little jaggedness you'll end up with will be covered by the ferrule's flange.

 

[Cagey]

Or should I try something like this:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/fender/150706-how-adapt-mighty-mite-telecaster-body-5-16-fender-string-ferrules.html

I can see where that might work, but trying to sand the interior of a round hole isn't as predictable as I'd like. I could see the hole ending up oblong or cocked or inconsistent in diameter or something. Ferrules are small enough in diameter that I doubt you'd have any risk of splitting the wood, but you can displace it enough that it shows, almost like the ferrule has been installed in a blister. But, even that you'd have to catch in just the right light to see.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

But I'm scared  :sad1:

Seriously, I haven't done much of this kind of stuff and I really don't wanna screw it up. The finish looks so nice.

I understand that. The first time I did it I was very reluctant to do it too. But after the first one went in the rest was easy. Just remember to lay the body on a towel or something that will absorb the hammer blows.

At home I have a drill press but it does not have the range for this. The one at work has the range but I don't like to commute too much unless it is very important. This can be done without the drill press.

But I am fairly used to do all kinds of handy work. YMMV.

 

[Stew]

So if I was gonna attempt hand-held drilling should I go with a twist drill or brad point bit? Also would M8 (8mm) be better than 5/16" given that Warmoth says the ferrules require an 8.20mm hole?
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar-String-Ferrule-Chrome-P130C77.aspx

 

[Cagey]

So if I was gonna attempt hand-held drilling should I go with a twist drill or brad point bit? Also would M8 (8mm) be better than 5/16" given that Warmoth says the ferrules require an 8.20mm hole?
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar-String-Ferrule-Chrome-P130C77.aspx

If you're hand-drilling into an existing hole, there's no meat to center a brad point on and it'll wander all over and destroy things, guaran-fricken-teed. Don't even try it. Use a twist drill. Preferably as new a one as you can get your hands on because you'll want it sharp. That'll self-center to a large extent, or at least close enough that you won't notice.

As for size, those are close enough that I don't think it would matter. The ferrule is supposed to be tighter than dammit, so a few thousandths is not going to make or break anything.

 

[Stew]

Thanks Cagey ... I'll go and pick up a new bit today ... NOT a brad point  :laughing7:

 

[Stew]

OK ... I did it!

Thanks Cagey & SustainerPlayer ... I followed both your advice ... or is that advices's  :laughing7:

Used a nice sharp 8mm bit to open the holes up a little. Got the missus to help me sight it to make sure it was nice and straight. Managed to get them all done without chipping the finish bar one, and that one only marginally. I put a dab of clear nail polish on the chipped bit just to keep it all stuck down.

So then I tried to gently guide the ferrules in ... a bit more pressure ... bloody hell these things are tight!!

So out comes the hammer with a bit of thin cardboard to stop me scratching the tops and .... I BASHED 'EM ... I BASHED THOSE SUCKERS GOOD!  :icon_thumright:

Managed to get them all nice and flush without burying them into the back of the guitar, or missing and putting a huge hammer shaped dent in the guitar, or hitting them crooked and having them sitting at some weird angle. Once they were in you can't even see the chipped finish because of the flanged edge.

I actually got so inspired that I sanded out the jack hole and drilled the angled holes to screw in the jack cup. Look out, I'm on a roll!

Thanks for the assistance folks.

 

[pabloman]

Heat causes metal to expand. :dontknow:    Glad it worked out for you. It can be scary pounding on the pretty stuff.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

:icon_thumright: Looking forward to see the finished project.