I am a small guy with small hands, and I am growing old. I would like a 24" scale guitar but there are few available. I thought of purchasing a Fender Mustang, but realized that after I swapped out the pickups, bridge and tuners that for a couple hundred dollars more I could build something better. My plan is to aquire a Warmoth 7/8 Strat body and a 24" scale warmoth neckwith 1 11/16" nut, standard thin profile, and 10-16" compound radius. To this I will add a Schaller 3D-6 top loading roller bridge, LSR roller nut, compensated locking tuners, and either Lindy Fralin split rail, or Lace sensor pickups. I know some will question my need for a roller nut and roller bridge on a non trim guitar, but I am looking for tuning stability any intonation accuracy, plus I do a lot of string bending. I know that a 24" scale length has less string tension and a top loading bridge will also offer less string tension. Might be able to run 13s with this setup. Any opinions. I am not to worried about sound as I have a good solid state modeling amp and modeling effects for my tube amp. Will I have enough string tension to keep it playable even with 13s? :yourock:
Partscaster with 24" scale
- Thread starter Merlin193
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Cagey
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I don't play any 24" scale guitars on a regular basis, so I'm just guessing here. But, I do know going from a 25.5" scale to a 24.75" scale will make a set of 10s feel like a set of 9s due to the lower tension. Extrapolating from there, going from a 24.75" scale to a 24" scale should make a set of 10s feel like a set of 8s. If that's true, then a set of 13's on a 24" scale should feel like a set of 11s.
What I'd wonder about is whether the strings might start getting sloppy, requiring higher action and/or greater relief. So, I went digging around the various string charts to see what there was to see, and found this one...
It only deals with the two more common guitar scales, but one of the things I noticed is that in almost all cases, the difference in tension between the two scales is roughly a pound. Again, extrapolating to the 24" scale, I'm guessing we'd lose another pound.
What does that mean? To me, it says if you're used to playing 11s on a Strat, you could play 13s on a Mustang and be happy, and you won't have tension issues. I'm sure there's more information in that chart if you study it, but I'll leave that up to you.
What I'd wonder about is whether the strings might start getting sloppy, requiring higher action and/or greater relief. So, I went digging around the various string charts to see what there was to see, and found this one...
It only deals with the two more common guitar scales, but one of the things I noticed is that in almost all cases, the difference in tension between the two scales is roughly a pound. Again, extrapolating to the 24" scale, I'm guessing we'd lose another pound.
What does that mean? To me, it says if you're used to playing 11s on a Strat, you could play 13s on a Mustang and be happy, and you won't have tension issues. I'm sure there's more information in that chart if you study it, but I'll leave that up to you.
Logrinn
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I have three 24" scale Warmoths now, a 7/8 Strat, a 7/8 Tele and a Mustang. I use .009's on all of them, and I've never been more happy.
I too am pretty short and doesn't have big hands. And getting old. I've played most guitar models back in my days, and realized a few years back that I'm meant for 24" scale guitars. Gibsons were ok, Fenders not so much, and when I got my hands on a 24" scale everything fell in place.
My Strat:
My Tele:
My Mustang:
I too am pretty short and doesn't have big hands. And getting old. I've played most guitar models back in my days, and realized a few years back that I'm meant for 24" scale guitars. Gibsons were ok, Fenders not so much, and when I got my hands on a 24" scale everything fell in place.
My Strat:
My Tele:
My Mustang:
Logrinn, Thanks your reply. Just what I was looking for, some one who has done this. My biggest concern with the build I have in mind is using a top loading bridge. I have been advised that this will lower string tension some what also. I was was afraid that the combination of a 24" scale with the top loading bridge might reduce tension so that the action may be to sloppy. I do not mind using heavier gauge strings if that is what it takes to maintain string tension, but will use the lightest I can get by with. Any thoughts on this? Awesome guitars you have there. Thanks for the pictures. Did Warmoth drill the string thru and bridge mounting holes? What bridge is that on the Mustang? Also I been trying to get specs. on the nut width, string spacing of the Mustang. Your opinion and info would be greatly appreciated.
Logrinn
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The Mustang has a bridge by german manufacturer ABM.
It's this bridge I have put on my Mustang:
Here's some more info about it from my build thread. A cool thing is that the bridge allows for both string through and top loaded. I haven't tried top loaded yet, but will do so shortly. There might be some difference in sound perhaps, but I highly doubt it. I also doubt there'll be any change in feel.
But should there be some difference, I can work this into my advantage by possibly having some strings go through the body and some top loaded.
I had Warmoth drill the string through holes only and omit the bridge mounting holes, since they don't have an option for having holes drilled for that particular bridge.
As for the neck's nut width, I have the wider option, 11/16", as I feel the more narrow version, 1 5/8", is a little too cramped for me.
Lastly, that bridge has the option to adjust the saddles laterally from wide to more narrow string spacing (the brass bits on the top of each saddle).
It's this bridge I have put on my Mustang:
Here's some more info about it from my build thread. A cool thing is that the bridge allows for both string through and top loaded. I haven't tried top loaded yet, but will do so shortly. There might be some difference in sound perhaps, but I highly doubt it. I also doubt there'll be any change in feel.
But should there be some difference, I can work this into my advantage by possibly having some strings go through the body and some top loaded.
I had Warmoth drill the string through holes only and omit the bridge mounting holes, since they don't have an option for having holes drilled for that particular bridge.
As for the neck's nut width, I have the wider option, 11/16", as I feel the more narrow version, 1 5/8", is a little too cramped for me.
Lastly, that bridge has the option to adjust the saddles laterally from wide to more narrow string spacing (the brass bits on the top of each saddle).
Logrinn
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I only use volume. I've owned several guitars with tone controls and I've never used them.
Of course, now that I focus more on getting a better tone out of my guitar, maybe I should consider adding a tone knob. Maybe on the next build.
But if it comes to having room for my right hand and adding another knob, the ergonomics will always win in my case. That's why the volume knobs are out of the way on my guitar so I don't accidentally hit them and lower the volume by mistake.
Of course, now that I focus more on getting a better tone out of my guitar, maybe I should consider adding a tone knob. Maybe on the next build.
But if it comes to having room for my right hand and adding another knob, the ergonomics will always win in my case. That's why the volume knobs are out of the way on my guitar so I don't accidentally hit them and lower the volume by mistake.
zebra
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The Schaller 3D-6 is an excellent bridge - I put it on one of those Danelectro reissues from the late 90s, and loved it. Solid, easy to adjust - perfect. I wouldn't worry about string tension differences between top-loading and string-through bridges - the tension is a result of the scale length, gauge of the string, and the pitch the string is tuned to. Different types of hardware can lead to a different feel while bending (for example, bending on a guitar with a trem vs. hard-tail), but there's not much difference between the top-loading and string-through varieties of hard-tails.
There is a maximum allowable string gauge for LSR nuts, but you should be fine with 13s.
There is a maximum allowable string gauge for LSR nuts, but you should be fine with 13s.
spaceranger
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I looked at roller nuts for tuning stability myself, and the biggest drawback I found with those is that they might get gunked up too easily causing the bearings to, well, not roll as much as they should, defeating the purpose they're supposed to serve here. And I don't know if they're necessarily simple to clean up.
I have a fixed bridge guitar with roller saddles on the bridge and a standard bone nut. I'm quite happy with that guitar for tuning stability and have noticed no excessive sustain-suck from using them (it's on a Guild S-300). I'd caution that you consider/investigate the maintenance aspects of a roller nut before committing to using one.
I have a fixed bridge guitar with roller saddles on the bridge and a standard bone nut. I'm quite happy with that guitar for tuning stability and have noticed no excessive sustain-suck from using them (it's on a Guild S-300). I'd caution that you consider/investigate the maintenance aspects of a roller nut before committing to using one.
bagman67
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Zebra said:
I was about to type something similar here, and then I stoppped to think that if you are using, for example, a trapeze tailpiece that ends up giving you a lot more string length south of the saddle, that in turn might yield a different feel when bending. Since you have a few extra inches of string down there, it seems to me that when you stretch the sounding length via a bend, the slack might have some effect on how hard it is to stretch the string. To be sure, if you're just playing straight notes, yes, the sounding length and tension are identical irrespective of the string anchoring mechanism. In the case of a string-through vs. top-load fixed bridge such as the German parts discussed above, I would not expect there to be a discernible difference, since the difference in the amount of slack behind the saddles is so trivial; but in the trapeze arrangement it might be appreciable.
My point is that it's hard to commit to the general truth when I can think of a situation where it might be less true, or untrue.
Cagey
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Intuitively, it seems like a longer string should be stretchier. And it's true that a longer length will stretch farther, since you get X amount of stretch per inch so more inches mean greater stretch length. But, there's no "store" of stretchability in the added string length a trapeze or other type bridge leaves outside the sounding length of the string. It's already been taken up getting the overall length up to the tension needed so the sounding length is at the right tension. The only thing the extra string length gets you at the headstock or tailpiece is a place to make tinkling noises, like at the beginning of "Runnin' With The Devil".
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