P-90 Options

Shandrazar

Junior Member
Messages
35
I'm considering building a guitar with P-90s.  My intent is to try to get a tone similar to Carlos Santana on Abraxas and other early albums.  I am leaning toward sopbars, but I'd also like to consider humbucker sized P-90s or even strat sized P-90s.  I figure the soapbars would give me the most authentic sounds, but that the HB or strat sized routes would give me more options if I ever decide to change pickups.  The flexibility of Seymour Duncan P-Rails look especially tempting if they can really give a good P-90 tone as advertised.  What are the best P-90s for the tone I want in any of these three sizes?
 
The standard response when it comes to P90's is to go with Lollar.  He's the P90 man.
Doesn't have humbucker sized ones though...
 
I have p90 from seymour duncan, P90 from Lauzon,  P90 HB sized from lauzon and I also have Tele bridge à-la- P90 (P-Tele)

by talking to the guy who make it I learn that
1- there is alot of variation on P90 (magnet type, turn, wire gage...) for exemple the SD does'nt sound like the lauzon The SD are brighter and are less punchy... sound better for massive overdrive.. the lauzon sound very very well for clean and light crunch but can get harsh with massive overdrive (it depend of the amp... a bright amp will sound better with the lauzon than the SD... at least to me... my main amp is on the dark side . i.e: MATAMP)

2- nothing exept P90 really sound like P90 BUT I do prefere P90 HB sized... they are a little bit brighter, and don'T know the real word in english, but I would say, more polite if it make sens...
3- the P-tele sound like a Tele bridge Pups, but meatier, clearer, punchy... really like them it keep the tele twang but not the ice pick high,,, I assume the P-Strat would do the same for a strat... my friend got some and they sound good, I prefer the P-tele.. but that personal taste

I have no relation with this guy.. even if most of my guit are loaded with his Pups,,, they are not expensive and better than most big brand IMHO if you want to look at this product www.qguit.com he is based in Quebec Canada so xchage rate will be on your side...
 
LOLLAR.  You cannot go wrong.  I have not found a sitution (I don't play very heavy music) where they don't sound incredible.
 
I have, in humbucker size, SD Phat Cat, Harmonic Design Z90 and Lindy Fralin P92. Out of these I like the Z90 and the P92 best. I think Z90 is the rudest, it has the most raw and big sound, but in a good way. P92 is a bit more polite, but you can order with different amount of wire, meaning you can decide wether the pu is low or higher output. The Phat Cat is ok, but not as fat as the Z90. It has quite a lot of cut or presence, if you will, and compresses easily. With Phat Cat it's the easiest to get my guitar sound like it will explode in flames any second now.... Yes I tend to play with distortion. P92 is the most quiet of the three, not a lot of hum and buzz. Might be the output, and the double coil assembly. For me Z90 is the best bang for the buck, Fralins are a lot more expensive, at least where I live.

All the pickups have been in the bridge slots of strat style guitars, no doubt they'd sound different in a Les Paul or some other instrument made out of mahogany.

 
 
Why is it....

We can talk humbuckers, and folks are all over the place, and recognize easily that there are PAFs, shredder's, and all manner of tastes in between.  But when it comes to P90's (or the fallicy of P90 in a HB package), folks think they are all real close to the same.

Gibson, has always "marketed" only one P90 (as opposed to marketing many HB pickups), but they've been all over the map in term of winding and tone, and magnetics, and tone,  and construction, and tone.

P90's of the long past, as used in the hollow body guitars were rather sweetly wound, much lighter than todays P90.  Think in terms of alnico-5 magnets and windings well under 8k, much closer to 7k.  This is how it was until the HB came along, with the exception that other magnets were used right at the end of the P90 era.  From that point, the P90 was relegated to being "the cheep pickup" for low end guitars, and the windings increased.   The windings increased because the pickups were used in brighter solid body guitars, and because in many instances, they were used as the only pickup, in the bridge position.   During this time, you get some real whopper P90's out there.  My friend voxman/hank has purchased original P90's (not rewound) that have gone well over 10k on the windings, maybe even 11.5k (memory is short here).  Gibson also experimented with ceramic magnets during this time.

The resurgence of interest in the P90 brought some changes, with a return to the alnico-5 manget and windings just over 8k as being standard  the recent modern past.  However, Gibson is up to its old tricks again - the P90 is now close to 9k (or just over) windings and is being made that way for the LesPaul BFG guitar (being hailed as a headbanger's delight).

Having said all that -

I've tried the Phat Cat, P94 Gibson, the Bastard, and the Fat Bastard, all "P90's" in a HB package.   None sound like a P90 of any type.  Reason is, the P90 has a very low, and very wide coil.  The shape of the coil makes a difference.  Old radiomen know this, and the quality factor (Q) of the circuit is much dependent on the coil shape.  Hence they would wind low wide coils, or tall skinny coils or "square" coils as fat as they were tall.   Whats going on here, is how sharp the resonant peak of the circuit is.    This cannot be duplicated using a coil of different physical form.

The Phat's are what I call a very "musical" pickup.  They do it all pretty well, and nothing great.  Real middle of the road - but remember - they were made for the Hamer semi-hollow body guitars.  They sound great in those (and similar like a Tele Thinline).  Get them in a Strat... less phat (but much phatter than a Fender SC pickup).  I have a pair of Phats in a Gibson ES-333 and they're GREAT there.  The guitar doesn't shred or do huge overdrive well, but if you need to get on stage and pick out some song, they're there for you with the tone.  Amazingly - and I dont know why - the tone controls seem more effective and less stacked-up with the Phats.

I had my go-round with RioGrande.  Quality issues aside, I was able to get a Bastard and FatBastard, and both sounded like total crap.  Lack of brilliance.  I know Jack love's them, and maybe if I hadn't tried the others first... I'd have been more impressed.  They were probably ok for some sort of Tejas-Bluz in an overdriven amp, being really middy.  Just... a one trick pony perhaps.  I tried them in a Tele Thinline, and was not impressed.

The Gibson P94 is one I tried a few of in the 90's.  They were (and I hope still are) very close to the P90 "middle of the road" winding.  Very strong, aggressive in a solid body, and while having a lot of mids, they dont lose the brilliance either.  They do look a bit funny with the "demi covers", but those can be replaced with no-hole covers if you really need to have the looks.  I tried these with another Tele Thinline (no F hole) and loved them!  But took 'em out because I simply could not find a bridge pickup that was anywhere close to being powerful enough to keep up with the P94.  They're louder than many HB's (as also are the P90s themselves)

So... it depends on your musical style, your guitar's body type and wood, and your expectations.   

 
Interesting point CB.  I can talk single coils and humbuckers all day......but the only first hand experience I've had is with the P94, and even that lasted all of 10 minutes. 

I'm feeling a need to add a W LP build to my list and move it up into the top 3.  :laughing7:
 
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