Not too happy overall

[-CB-]

I gotta say....  the only real issue the gentleman has is the unlevel frets, and I suspect that this is perhaps a fret that needs reseating, if there's a problem at all.

Warmoth nuts need final fitting.  Thats part of the setup.  Slot width is made for .010 -.046 string sets and set to what I'd call medium high, allowing great latitude in final fitting.  Final fitting... thats part of assembly, setup, etc.  Its part of the "assembling you're own" experience.... and sure beats fitting the nut and slots from scratch.  Warmoth has done 90percent of the work, you just need to take it the rest of the way.  String spacing is not supposed to be even.  The string spacing does vary due to the varying width of the strings... but I suppose some small variation in overall centering might be there.  I had a cracked nut one time from Warmoth.  Happens.

Fret polish... I'm not sure, but some minor polishing may be preferred.  I dont bother, as the very minor scratches are not able to be felt while playing or bending, and soon, they just polish themselves out by string wear.

Fret level... considering the fretboard surface is really really held to a tight tolerance, its unlikely that huge leveling would be needed.  A fret thats not quite seated would be my FIRST suspect, as it would be something to check anyway, before any leveling is ever done.  If you try to level an unseated fret, then you get a LOW fret when its leveled.... so always check seating first.  Recently, I had ONE single high fret, #22 on a neck.  It went back down fine, and has stayed there.  Thats one.. ONE fret... with any issue at all, with a total of what... 8 necks or so over the years.  I'd say... I'd have hoped for perfection, but its part of the setup, part of the fine tuning process to work with, tweak and correct to your own liking.  IT COULD BE that no fret leveling is needed, but that your neck just needs to acclimate, and be under string tension in order to gain its proper relief.... with the proper setup that is.  It could be, you are expecting the action to be very very low, and dont realize the mathematical limit to action height, esp. when bending in the area juat above fret 12 or so....

Warmoth does not supply, and never claimed to supply what are essentially unassembled guitars that simple need to be reassembled.  Instead, they supply replacement components, that must be fit and finished into the pre-existing instrument, or within the scope of the concept of the custom creation. 

In other words - be prepared to work a bit, or pay... to have things made to your specific liking.  Warmoth, in effect, supplies the sheet music, but you must play the song....

 

[bwbass]

There is just no way to offer a pre-made nut that can accommodate all the different fret heights, nut widths, finishes etc. I consider them to be a waste of time and money, they don't always have the strings spacing right, you do always have to refile the heights etc. - the worst thing, is gives the impression that anyone can just screw some parts together and have a perfect guitar a few hours later.... since you're going to have to buy a bunch of files and learn about spacing strings and how to get the heights right ANYWAY, why does Warmoth even sell 'em?  :icon_scratch: It takes almost as long to fix a nut as to make one. Even if there were some nuts that were pre-made to each neck width, they'd still be too high, and customers would still be baffled... if Warmoth were to start offering finished setups, they'd be a $2500 custom guitar shop - for $2500.

I'd say this too, if I didn't know how Warmoth made 'em, which I do. 

The nuts they install are not off-the-shelf generic parts, they are custom cnc-machined one-at-a-time for each neck.  They take measurements with a dial indicator from the top of the frets to the bottom of the nut shelf/slot at 3 points (left fb edge, middle, and right fb edge) combined with general specs about the neck like fb radius, nut width, scale length, headstock type, etc, and feed it into a computer program that writes a custom cnc program for each neck.  They also feed in a caliper measurement of the exact width of the neck it's going on so the nut gets cut just .010" oversize before installation, which makes it very difficult to install the nut off-center.

The reason the low E-string looks farther away from the edge of the fingerboard is that it is, by design.  Warmoth's string nuts (and tuner hole locations on straight-pull headstocks) are laid out for equal fingerboard-edge and string center-to-center spacing, so while the centerline of the fatter strings is farther away from the edge of the fingerboard, the edge-of-string to edge-of-fingerboard distance on both sides should be about equal.  This is how Ken Warmoth says all old Fender necks were done, so it's how they do it today.

String height is always a bit high, by necessity, since otherwise a very small error in measurement or installation (a speck of dust under the nut when it's getting machined, for example), could render the neck unplayable.  String spacing, slot angle, and slot diameter should all be very, very good, though - much better than any off-the-shelf part.  It's even more impressive on non-straight-pull headstocks, like a Jackson or KWS head, as the slots go off in crazy angles to the tuners that change with the nut width and string diameter.  And the slots on these necks are actually 3D arcs, not straight lines.  They curve backwards very slightly on their way to the headstock to minimize wear by spreading out string pressure over the length of the slot while maintaining the necessary break angle at the front edge.  I don't know of anybody else in the industry who makes nuts like this.

So in short, no, they're not perfect, but they're much better than an off-the-shelf pre-cut nut, and probably better than many of their customers could do.

 

[Orpheo]

strange, i here more and more stories about bad necks. Is the QC slipping??

I would say no QC is not slipping.  Statistically speaking, membership here at Unofficial Warmoth continues to increase and tend to be vocal about their likes and dislikes.  If you look at the number of folks raving about their parts and compare those to the complaints, you'll find the vast majority are highly satisfied.  Further, if we look at business trends in general we find that people are more likely to complain about something than offer compliments.  That's just nature.  We cannot say quality is slipping just by looking at complaints.  You also need to look at how many satisfied customers there are.

If we look at the total number of necks and bodies in a year against the number of returns or validated issues, you'll find a satisfaction rate in the neighborhood of 99.8% and my off the top of my head numbers may be just a tad low.  Granted, everyone would be satisfied if this were a perfect world, but there are entirely too many variables to guarantee success right out of the box.

true, true... I forgot to think about the fact that the board continues to keep on growing.

I have the feeling that the tone became a bit tighter, punchier, vibrant, alive, when I raised the action compared with lower action. can't really explain it

 

[rhythm]

I gotta say....  the only real issue the gentleman has is the unlevel frets, and I suspect that this is perhaps a fret that needs reseating, if there's a problem at all.

Warmoth nuts need final fitting.  Thats part of the setup.  Slot width is made for .010 -.046 string sets and set to what I'd call medium high, allowing great latitude in final fitting.  Final fitting... thats part of assembly, setup, etc.  Its part of the "assembling you're own" experience.... and sure beats fitting the nut and slots from scratch.  Warmoth has done 90percent of the work, you just need to take it the rest of the way.  String spacing is not supposed to be even.  The string spacing does vary due to the varying width of the strings... but I suppose some small variation in overall centering might be there.  I had a cracked nut one time from Warmoth.  Happens.

Fret polish... I'm not sure, but some minor polishing may be preferred.  I dont bother, as the very minor scratches are not able to be felt while playing or bending, and soon, they just polish themselves out by string wear.

Fret level... considering the fretboard surface is really really held to a tight tolerance, its unlikely that huge leveling would be needed.  A fret thats not quite seated would be my FIRST suspect, as it would be something to check anyway, before any leveling is ever done.  If you try to level an unseated fret, then you get a LOW fret when its leveled.... so always check seating first.   Recently, I had ONE single high fret, #22 on a neck.  It went back down fine, and has stayed there.  Thats one.. ONE fret... with any issue at all, with a total of what... 8 necks or so over the years.  I'd say... I'd have hoped for perfection, but its part of the setup, part of the fine tuning process to work with, tweak and correct to your own liking.   IT COULD BE that no fret leveling is needed, but that your neck just needs to acclimate, and be under string tension in order to gain its proper relief.... with the proper setup that is.   It could be, you are expecting the action to be very very low, and dont realize the mathematical limit to action height, esp. when bending in the area juat above fret 12 or so....

Warmoth does not supply, and never claimed to supply what are essentially unassembled guitars that simple need to be reassembled.  Instead, they supply replacement components, that must be fit and finished into the pre-existing instrument, or within the scope of the concept of the custom creation.   

In other words - be prepared to work a bit, or pay... to have things made to your specific liking.  Warmoth, in effect, supplies the sheet music, but you must play the song....

I would generally subscribe to what you are saying. The extra work that is needed with building your own guitar is why we are not paying custom shop prices and getting a pretty comparable product. My guitar when finished will have costed me about the same as a highway 1 and I have not cut any corners (right down to pointless silver solder etc.). I expect it will be as good as anything I can buy at my local guitar store because every screw goes through the 'me' quality control.

At the same time, there was quite a lot wrong with my neck and the scuff on the finish on the body didnt thrill me, but I didnt call Warmoth to complain and I didnt mention it on here until now. The reason I didnt care too much is because I the plus points outweighed the negatives. It is a beautiful neck and body that work very well together. I could have left the frets as they were and just had a highish action, but why should I have to compromise. Not compromising is why we choose to build our own.

I also agree that I was just very unlucky and this is by no means the norm. Shame it happened, but what can you do?

Like I said, I would/will order from warmoth again because you get just what you want and the wood selection makes the products better than most $xxxx guitars, but I will be nervous of the amount of work I might have to do or pay to have done. Hope lightning does not strike twice!

 

[GoDrex]

i've read that the compound radius can make people think the neck is twisting... I forget who said it... maybe Gregg... or I dreamed it

 

[rhythm]

i've read that the compound radius can make people think the neck is twisting... I forget who said it... maybe Gregg... or I dreamed it

Nope................. it has an up-bow on the treble side while the bass side is straight. Defo a twist.

I dont see how the compound radius would make you think it was twisted if you sight down one side of the fretboard and then the other to compare relief. Not saying you didnt read that though. :icon_scratch:

 

[po_0784]

I gotta say....  the only real issue the gentleman has is the unlevel frets, and I suspect that this is perhaps a fret that needs reseating, if there's a problem at all.


Fret level... considering the fretboard surface is really really held to a tight tolerance, its unlikely that huge leveling would be needed.  A fret thats not quite seated would be my FIRST suspect, as it would be something to check anyway, before any leveling is ever done.  If you try to level an unseated fret, then you get a LOW fret when its leveled.... so always check seating first.   Recently, I had ONE single high fret, #22 on a neck.  It went back down fine, and has stayed there.  Thats one.. ONE fret... with any issue at all, with a total of what... 8 necks or so over the years.  I'd say... I'd have hoped for perfection, but its part of the setup, part of the fine tuning process to work with, tweak and correct to your own liking.   IT COULD BE that no fret leveling is needed, but that your neck just needs to acclimate, and be under string tension in order to gain its proper relief.... with the proper setup that is.   It could be, you are expecting the action to be very very low, and dont realize the mathematical limit to action height, esp. when bending in the area juat above fret 12 or so....

A big thanks to you about this info!! I will make sure the tech lookout for an unsuspected bad-seated fret! Happy to get this info just in time before the guy come take it  :icon_thumright:

 

[simple]

i've read that the compound radius can make people think the neck is twisting... I forget who said it... maybe Gregg... or I dreamed it

That would not have been me.

 

[po_0784]

Just to give you an update... someone just polished the frets and moved the truss rod a bit, things seems to get better D. I guess since its a newly put together instrument..it needs time to settle down.

Those ss6100 SHINE now! I'm almost afraid to slip on them and break my back on the floor. Right now im adjusting the nut slot's heights with... drill bits. Yeah, don't try this at home, but already it seems a lot better  :icon_thumright:.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

If you look at the number of folks raving about their parts and compare those to the complaints, you'll find the vast majority are highly satisfied. 

I'm satisfied, but had a less than satisfactory attempt at ordering my first time.  I proceeded to go into great detail in a post, only to find the entire thread deleted the next day.  In this case, the positive to negative responses ratio had a little help.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

With three bodies and three necks purchased from Warmoth, I'm very happy with the products received. What I do notice is that sometimes not all info is easily available on the website or what is available is not always very clear. For instance, the info that a prefitted nut is available does not appear on the bass neck pages, only on the guitar neck section, but it IS available. Similarly, on my most recent neck I was a bit surprised to find that the fingerboard extension was left square. On my two previous necks it had been rounded. Looking in the showcase, it looks like this is related to the headstock shape - I think Fender style headstocks have a rounded FB extension, and on others it is left square, but there is no mention of this. On the other hand, I seem to recall having read somewhere that this is the buyers choice, but I'm not sure if I really saw it and I can't find it anymore. If the website was clearer on these points it would also save a lot of questions having to be asked. On a similar tone, I have noticed that the different choices get translated into a series of standardized codes that finally show up on the invoice. If the list of these codes were published on the website, the customer could place his order just by mailing the list of codes to the sales rep.

 

[stubhead]

I have noticed that the different choices get translated into a series of standardized codes that finally show up on the invoice. If the list of these codes were published on the website, the customer could place his order just by mailing the list of codes to the sales rep.

This is a profoundly useful idea - I wonder how much business is repeat business, I bet a lot. Warmoth could label their code page "For OCD serial Warmothists" and we could speak in codes.
(and have a secret handshake, too.) arty07:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I think the best way for these types of issues to be handled is to make the phone call to the Sales Manager @ 253-845-0403 right when a potential problem is noticed, ideally, upon inspection when the item is received, before putting a single screw to wood.

Doing this over going to the forum first would cause better communication, and get your issue dealt with directly from the potential source.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

Back to the language-ing  I speak a bit of japaneese 

Watashi wa connor desu.....................

I've been learning that at school since the year started and thats all i can remember on the spot!

 

[tfarny]

Many good and reasonable points here. It's pretty rare on the internets that a thread like this could go three pages without somebody threatening to violate somebody else's mother.
Agreed that:
1. expecting to need fretwork and quality setup goes with the territory. It's a one-of-a-kind fine musical instrument.
2. Generally speaking, the quality of this stuff is super-high. I recently built two warmoths and resold them. The guy who bought the first one came back THREE days later, having sold his 20th anniversary Ibanez or whatever, to buy my other one. And he was a shredder, and the second guitar was a totally vintage-type SSS strat with an SRV neck!!!!

I've now bought about seven guitars worth of W parts, less than some here but a fair amount. I've never considered returning any of the parts I've received. However:
1. I have had aspects of the product which were definitely not up to W's claims - one nut was ridiculously high, unplayably so. I'm not being a crank here, I seriously couldn't fret an F chord with it. Whatever was supposed to happen in the CNC machine, did not happen, and it still got shipped to me. Not a huge deal, it's fixable, etc. My most recent custom neck order took around four months to arrive after an initial 4-6 week estimate. Now that it's here, it's amazing and I can't stop playing it though!
So, Wyliee take note that just looking at the number of returns and relative lack of complaints doesn't mean that everything is perfect. Internet boards are partly for complaining.
2. Look, if the guy says his neck is twisted and his nut isn't right, take him at his word. He paid for the parts, you guys run a discussion board, e.g., he's going to mention it here. If I were him, I'd return it for sure if it's really twisted.

 

[GoDrex]

i've read that the compound radius can make people think the neck is twisting... I forget who said it... maybe Gregg... or I dreamed it

That would not have been me.

I must have dreamed it :tard:

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

Hehe!

Anyway, most of the stories i have read is when someone got a faulty neck, it was a snap to fix and then a wonder to play, so i'm looking forward to Xmas! and then the weeks of pretending to play the neck while it's being made!

 

[ByteFrenzy]

(and have a secret handshake, too.) arty07:

You mean that was NOT the secret handshake???   

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

I have noticed that the different choices get translated into a series of standardized codes that finally show up on the invoice. If the list of these codes were published on the website, the customer could place his order just by mailing the list of codes to the sales rep.

This is a profoundly useful idea - I wonder how much business is repeat business, I bet a lot. Warmoth could label their code page "For OCD serial Warmothists" and we could speak in codes.
(and have a secret handshake, too.) arty07:

Oh God....................NERDS!

 

[rhythm]

Yeah, my neck was twisted, but I am not upset or anything. Frets reshaped.............. its fine.

I would have returnned it if it was twisted like a pretzel but a little bit of twist doesnt kill me. I am probably more upset with the scuffed finish on the body, because that is just sloppy. Some of the bodies that have finish flaws in the showcase get discounted with really tiny dings so my body, by rights, should really have been discounted and I cant believe that Warmoth didnt notice the scuff in the factory. Still, the way I see it, I will knock the thing when I get it up an running anyway so what is one more ding from the factory?

I am not really that fussed about the problems with my order. The body and neck look great now that they got united (pic of the finished product over the next couple of weeks I think) it just wasnt as easy as anticipated to get to that stage. Cést la vie.

I will buy Warmoth again, no doubt.