Non-Recessed Floyd Rose Setup

[Lumberjack]

So far, I've only used recessed tremolos, but with my newest build I wanted to try out the non-recessed version. The neck, which I intended to use as a replacement for my Fender HSS strat with floyd rose, is made by USACG and it features a locking bridge along with the 10"-16" compound radius and the body is made by Warmoth and features the standard Stratocaster shape and the Floyd with angled pocket option. I thought that with this constellation, the only thing I had to do, in order to achieve a perfect stirng height, was to flush mount the Floyd Rose and adjust the neck curvature.

Now I see that it's not that easy, I had to up the Floyd Rose height by quite a bit. What I want to know is if I have to adjust the spring tension, along with the mounting studs, so that the tremolo keeps a parallel distance to the body or if I have to keep the rear end of the floyd connected the body (no loosening of the spring tension)? Is the necessity for that kind of adjustment a sign that the neck is actually not meant for this particular body?

 

[dmraco]

So you have a couple of options.  Recessed floods are meant to be floating giving you arm travel in both directions.  The flush mount can be done either way.  Cranking the springs tight will bringing the back of the Floyd against the body.  This makes for a much more stable system an also prevents the tuning from going all crazy if you bust a string.  However you lose the ability to pull up on the bar.

You can set it to float but what you gain in travel, you lose in stability.  This is achieved by what you stated.  Finding that harmony with stud height and spring tension.  I find I like them hard mounted but it is personal choice.

You touched on another issue.  Since you have a compound radius neck, the string height for all six strings will never be perfect unless you shim the saddles.  For me it has never been an issue but others will shim in the search for perfect action.  There are several threads on the board about this.  Either way it is not a factor of your neck. 

Good luck. 

 

[DangerousR6]

Yes, it takes a conjunction of the bridge anchors and the spring claw adjustment to achieve the desired set up. It also depends on the desired action that your are after, if the neck angle is too steep then a shim may be required in the neck pocket to help with that. But as a rule of thumb, Warmoth is usually spot on with the neck pocket angle and depth..

 

[Lumberjack]

I've discovered another problem that may be related to the floyd rose. It's about the space between the two E-strings and the sides of the neck. Here's a pic of the strings near the locking nut:

http://i.imgur.com/VZ8Gkbp.jpg

And here's a pic at the neck/body transition:

http://i.imgur.com/tLX3Qe1.jpg

In the first pic, everything seems to be the way it's supposed to, but in the second pic, the lower e string almost exceeds the neck edge. Is this a sure sign that the neck is warped? I don't see a problem with my locking nut position and the mounting stud holes are surely drilled correctly, as they were done by Warmoth (including stud installation), so the floyd rose position shouldn't be off, either.

The neck seems to fit the pocket rather good. I see no problem there, either:

http://i.imgur.com/BJHq61l.jpg

And here's my current Floyd Rose setup:

http://i.imgur.com/27OxbV7.jpg

I had to raise the low E-side stud a bit more than the higher E-side one, so you're seeing the most "extreme" setting on this photo. But I do hope that it's still acceptable to have the Floyd in that configuration as I really didn't want to use this as a floating trem guitar...

 

[Lumberjack]

Here's a web gallery that shows these photos in a more overseeable manner:

http://imgur.com/a/BlnYW

 

[dmraco]

OK  that helps.  It looks good up top.  everything seems well spaced.

down at the bottom of the neck it is off a bit.  Here is what you do.

Loosen the strings and take off the neck.  Place a small shim on the SIDE of the neck pocket on the low E side near the bottom.  A business card should be all you need but you can play with different thickness.  keep the shim to the bottom the the neck pocket and this will push the bottom of the neck over a bit and straighten the alignment.  I have had to do this on guitars before.  not a big deal.

If the business card it too think and it pushed the string too far to the other side, try layering masking tape on the side of the pocket. 

Put the neck on and you should be in business.

 

[aarontunes]

Disclaimer: this is not official  Warmoth support. This is one guitar dude talking to another on an internet forum.

Based on those photos, I see a couple obvious problems with that setup. First and foremost, the neck is most likely not warped...it has been attached crooked. You need to loosen the neck bolts just a bit and give it a tweak towards the low E side to get it straight. Use the E strings as a guide to get it straight and centered. Then re-tighten the bolts.

The next thing I would do is adjust the spring tension in the back the get the Floyd deck sitting parallel to the body.

I wouldn't worry about anything else until those things are done.


EDIT: DMRACO beat me to the punch on the crooked neck attachment. I personally wouldn't use a shim until I tried simply tweaking the neck a bit a re-tightening the bolts. You have to take care when attaching a neck. It's not just a matter of slapping it in the pocket and screwing the bolts. Even on tight fitting neck pockets it's possible for a neck to be the teensiest bit askew, and even the teensiest bit will be compounded at the end of the neck, and up out of alignment.

 

[Lumberjack]

Wow, thanks for these helpful responses, guys!

What kind of material should I use for the shim? I don't have any metal plates lying around and I'm not sure what else I could use... What about the dimensions? Should I cover a whole strip on the right side or is it enough to cover maybe 1/2 or even less of the pocket length?

I'll try double A's approach first - I'll loosen the screws a bit and I'll pull the neck a bit to the left side (if we look at the guitar lying on the floor). Is that what is meant by the word "tweak" or did you mean something else with that expression, double A?

Anyway, I'll report back later - thanks again, guys! Your advice is very much appreciated!

 

[aarontunes]

If it were my guitar I would loosen the strings, loosen the neck screws a turn or so each, the grab the headstock in one hand and the horn on the low E side in the other, and gently but firmly pull the headstock towards the low E side until I hear/feel the neck shifting in the pocket.

Then check the high and low E strings for proper alignment.

Repeat as necessary, in one direction or the other, until the neck is properly centered.

Once centered, tighten the bolts, tighten the stings, and done.

This is something I have done on first assembly of pretty much every guitar I have built. Done it a million times on "store bought" guitars too....just a little chiropractic adjustment to straighten things out.

Something to watch out for: don't go animal on the neck. It doesn't take much pressure to shift the neck a little. If you are exerting a decent amount of pressure and the neck isn't moving, there may be something else wrong. You don't want to crack the finish around the heel pocket going crazy on the neck.

And again: one guitar dude talking to another here. Not official support. All risk is assumed by you.

 

[dmraco]

Double A is right, you can straighten without a shim.  I do find they will eventually work themselves back if there is room in the pocket.  Especially with a whammy.

If you do decide to shim, I use a business card or like a said, a small piece of layered tape in the area I need a shim.  A little goes a long way.  You are not off by much.  use of some material will give a more snug fit.  Remember to always press the neck in with the body laying flat.  Do not slide the neck in from the top of the guitar/neck pocket.  Do not force it or you could put undo pressure on the joint and crack the finish.

Try what Double A said.  If it goes back, use a shim.

this is a common issue.  take a look at this stock photo of an EVH.  Look at the string spacing the the alignment around the fret markers.  too far off IMHO

 

[Lumberjack]

Thanks again, guys!

I've tried your approach double A to no avail. The neck fits the pocket so good that there is really no sideway motion possible. Maybe I had to use a bit more force, but I was a bit too scared for all the reasons you've mentioned above.

I proceeded to try DMRACO's shimming advice. I've used a business card and layered some tape over it in order to hold it in place. Here are a couple of photos of what I did:

http://imgur.com/a/cCp0v

(Didn't want to link the photos directly as they'll appear a bit too oversized on here.)

The first photo is the result after I've put the neck and the body back together (with the shim underneath). I didn't notice a difference, even though my shim isn't small at all. Maybe it's supposed to have a smaller footprint in order to unfold it's usability? I'm sure I must have done something wrong here...

 

[dmraco]

the placement is incorrect.  It needs to go on the SIDE of the neck pocket. 
If the pocket is too tight I have had to use some 220 to sand the high E side....

I will PM you

 

[Lumberjack]

I heeded DMRACO's advice and put some piece of cornflakes cardboard on the lower e-string sidewall of the pocket. Here's the result:

http://i.imgur.com/7Xx5Gmv.jpg

I guess it's still not 100% perfect, but it's not too bad, either. What do you think?

 

[dmraco]

now put some masking tape over the cardboard... :icon_thumright:

 

[Logrinn]

Looks perfect to me.

 

[Lumberjack]

I'll try to improve it further with the masking tape trick! Thanks again! I'm not a big DIY person, so your advice helped me a ton!

 

[Lumberjack]

I'm done with the setup now, but I won't be able to use my D-Tuna. Right now, I'm having a floating, instead of a flush mounted, Tremolo.

Is the only viable way to lower the tremolo height the shimming of the outer 4 saddles, so that I can transform the standard 10" radius into the 16" radius I need? Maybe a fret job is necessary, too, in my situation?