New Gear Day: Line 6 Content

[ThePhilosopher]

After selling a few unplayed guitars along with my HD500 I was out under $200 in this huge upgrade. I haven't been able to mess with it much yet (I'm out of town for a while), but the little fiddling I've done has been amazingly simple and versatile.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

SCORE!!

 

[aarontunes]

I have been seriously considering a Helix...vacillating between that and the Atomic products.


I have a hard time crossing the mental barrier from tubes...but the simplicity is very appealing. I also know from experience that in reality I would actually use only about 2% of the tones and functionality available in a Helix-type device, so I would be paying for a lot of stuff that would never see the light of day. Worth it?


I'll be interested to hear your opinions!

 

[ThePhilosopher]

I struggled with the DSP limits in my HD500 from time-to-time trying to build patches with the correct effects I was after. I'm tending to want to use different tones from my previous efforts (I used an Uber model for most of my previous releases; however, my first used an Engl model).

I've played some real amps that I've loved (Mesa Mark Series, Diezel VH4, Marshall JMP-1) that I could definitely find a use for in my currently playing, and who doesn't like changing up their tone every once in a while? The ability to load external IR's is huge for me as well (I have quite a collection of Ownhammer stuff). I'm hoping to come up with some crazy ambient guitar patches for those moments when I want to chill out with the eBow and replicate a synth pad.

 

[Cagey]

I have a hard time crossing the mental barrier from tubes...but the simplicity is very appealing. I also know from experience that in reality I would actually use only about 2% of the tones and functionality available in a Helix-type device, so I would be paying for a lot of stuff that would never see the light of day. Worth it?

Considering the cost of a decent amp vs. a good modeler, you're not paying for a lotta features/functions that you're not going to use. You're getting a helluva lotta features/functions for free. As with all gear, it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

 

[aarontunes]

I have a hard time crossing the mental barrier from tubes...but the simplicity is very appealing. I also know from experience that in reality I would actually use only about 2% of the tones and functionality available in a Helix-type device, so I would be paying for a lot of stuff that would never see the light of day. Worth it?

Considering the cost of a decent amp vs. a good modeler, you're not paying for a lotta features/functions that you're not going to use. You're getting a helluva lotta features/functions for free. As with all gear, it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

IME, that depends on how good the UI is....but I get what you're saying.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

That's true; you don't want to have to do a ton of menu diving just to tweak your treble setting. But, there are usually some number of "assignable" knobs you can program to affect whichever parameter you'd like, and those settings can follow the preset so you aren't locked in to any particular arrangement.

I haven't had an opportunity to play around with the Helix yet, but my understanding is the UI on that unit is far and away the best one out there at the moment.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

The UI on the Helix is super intuitive; I haven't even cracked the manual open on it and can easily build a patch with footswitch-enabled parallel processing. I can try to take a video of my process for building a patch from scratch.

 

[stratamania]

With regard to the cost of modelers, it is not just a case of buying the modeler and you are done.

You also then may need FRFR / Monitors and in the case of the Axe FX non-floorboard unit a good Midi Foot controller.

I think another option is a combination of analog and digital, using these things in 4CM. On that note Line 6 has a Helix FX unit being released at NAMM and probably some other things. Yesterday Boss announced a GT-1000 which has all of the xx-500 effects built in and looks also a good contender in this space.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Congratulations! I've had Helix for going on two years and it's easily the best piece of kit I've ever purchased. It was my first foray into modeling, I'd always been a tube amp guy prior. My tube amps haven't been switched on in longer than I can remember...

 

[Cagey]

Congratulations! I've had Helix for going on two years and it's easily the best piece of kit I've ever purchased. It was my first foray into modeling, I'd always been a tube amp guy prior. My tube amps haven't been switched on in longer than I can remember...

That seems to be most people's experience. Modelers have come a long way in the last few years. Once in a while you'll hear somebody can't abide some perceived lack of authenticity, but they're the outliers. The vast majority are having great fun, while their tube amps are either collecting dust or getting flipped to finance other things or clear out clutter.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Amps are a bit like cars, really.  The new ones have lots of computers in them, and working on them can be anywhere from daunting to an outright PITA, but by and large, they'll do most everything you could want them to as well as or better than the "classics".  And of course, some people will gripe about how they can "tell" that a car has electric instead of hydraulic power steering or that a car is throttle-by-wire, but we tend to ignore them.  Same with the folks who can tell that it's not a "real" amp.

The older ones, by comparison, are simpler to work on because there's generally just less to mess with, but they also are a bit fussier and generally require more upkeep with parts that are becoming harder to find.  Some people will still swear they're better.  Guitarists and gearheads are rather obsessed with outdated technology in that way.

As for me, I have owned two Line 6 amps (the Spider series, even) and have no complaints.  I think people are just expecting too much out of them - for $300, you aren't getting top-of-the-line DSP.  You just aren't.  But I can definitely see myself with a modeler at some point in the future.

 

[Cagey]

You won't be sorry once you do. The better units are spooky close to tube amps, when they're not spot-on.

I suspect there's a large population of players out there who are still smarting from their last go-round with solid state amps, which have traditionally been pretty disappointing pieces of gear for many applications. That prejudice carries over into the modeling world, not really understanding that the embedded computers that control their tonal character are dramatically different than a straight-up component replacement, which is what most legacy "transistorized" amps used to be. I know I was a hard sell - I've been playing for ~45 years, and owned more than one solid state amp that left a lot to be desired, and lots tube amps to compare them to. Now? Phbbt. Tube amps are just a curiosity.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I'm still loving my HD500X, after 8 years on an XT Live.
Good is good, new or not.
Despite the tweaking of knobs needed to set presets, these units are far more user friendly than having to tweak settings on multiple components like I had to when I was still touring with a 20 space rack.

I think modeling just makes practical sense if gigging, but also from an environmental point, I think it wins over tubes for consistency & recall.

 

[dmraco]

what do most people run these modeling units to when playing live?  I would think a good solid state power amp and cab.  Or directly into a PA?

 

[Cagey]

Yes.

 

[mayfly]

I personally go straight into the PA.  You do need to ensure that the club has half-decent monitors.  That and make sure they are not applying the 'smiley-face curve' on the master graphic EQ. 

The smiley-face curve makes me frowny-face.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

what do most people run these modeling units to when playing live?  I would think a good solid state power amp and cab.  Or directly into a PA?

I use in-ears, monitor in stereo, no cab, completely direct, and FOH loves me for it.  Everyone thinks I'm using a stack off stage cranked & mic'd.  Nope, totally DI.  FOH does a touch of a low end roll off for the room, that's about it.

 

[stratamania]

what do most people run these modeling units to when playing live?  I would think a good solid state power amp and cab.  Or directly into a PA?

Both, and as mentioned in posts above. Others go to the PA and use an FRFR powered monitor on stage.

Other methods in a studio/home environment are Studio Monitors or Headphones.

Some use a combination of analog and digital, so it does not have to be one or the other.

I still like good tube amps, but have also owned high-end modelers and would be happy with either. I have also owned other modelers that although liked by some I did not like at all.

Here is a link with a lot of good info if you scroll down to amplification. It is a Fractal Wiki but a lot of it will apply across amping up modelers in general.

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Fractal_Audio_wiki:_Axe-Fx_II

 

[Cagey]

One thing to keep in mind is if you really want the modeling feature to be anywhere near true to the amp you're modeling, you need to use a transparent amp and FRFR speaker(s). If you use a tube amp and/or a regular guitar speaker of any kind, you can still get fantastic sounds, but they won't sound like the original. Not necessarily a Bad Thing, just something to be aware of. Run a model of a Vox AC30 or Fender Twin into an actual 412 fulla EVMs or Celestion V30s or something, and it's not gonna sound anything like an AC30 or a Twin. It'll be a whole different animal.