Need help with picking options for my first REAL electric!

neotim

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8
I'm an acoustic guitar and bass player who wants to buy a quality electric.  The problem is that I can't find much with a neck width that I want (1.75").  I'm a woodworker and diy guy, so I know that I can build my own.  I want a LP with a lot of sustain, and I'm going for function and feel over style.  I want something close to a LP Standard sound wise.

The Warmoth site is pretty confusing to me, and I'd like help picking electronics and hardware.  So, here's what I want:
-Flat Top Mahogany with no laminate
-Right Handed
-Rear Rout Cavity
?Neck and Bridge Pickups - Both humbuckers...Don't know what to choose specifically here!
-No F-hole
-Standard 5 LP controls
?Input Jack - ???
-Bridge Type - Hardtail
?Bridge Rout - ???  Are any bridges wider to go with my wide nut that I want (1.75")?
?Neck Picket - Strat with 720 or not?
-No contours or binding
?Stud Install - ???
-Battery box - I don't think so
-Finish - I will finish myself with hand rubbed tung oil

Neck:
-Warmoth Pro Angled
- Mahogany shaft with Ebony fingerboard
-1 3/4" nut
-right handed
-Fat back contour (i think)
-10-16 compound radius
-22 fingerboard length
-no scalloping or binding
?Fret size ???
?Tuner Hole ???
-Cream face dots
-GraphTech Black Nut
-4-bolt mounting
-No Finish - same as body

So, what pickups will sound good with this setup? - similar to standard LP
What hardware will work well with wide nut (want black or chrome)?
 
I'll just address the ones I know enough to help with.

Pickups: Humbuckers are what you want for that LP sound. As for the specific models, that's where it gets tough. There are a lot of manufacturers out there, some good, some great, but you'll find that price is often a limiting factor. Also, the style of music you like to play (or want to play) is extremely important to consider when choosing pickups. Personally, I love Bare Knuckle Pickups. I have about three sets so far, but the only humbucker by them that I have is the Nailbomb. I love it, it's fat, rich, and agressive. It's a higher output pickup, so it's more suited for modern type rock/hard rock/metal, but I think it can do more vintage sounds pretty well too. Bare Knuckles are great, and I haven't run across many people who don't like them, but they are pretty expensive (about $270-$300 for a pair of humbuckers). Check out the Mules for great 59 PAF tone. The best part is that you can send them an email telling them the sound you're after (be as specific as possible) and what type of guitar they'll go into and they'll tell you which of their models would work best.

Output jack: This one isn't too hard, just go with the 7/8" route. It's the proper size for a Les Paul. Just be sure to use a square jack plate, as those are the standard for Les Pauls.

Bridge route: Well first of all you'll probably want a Tune o Matic bridge route, if you want it to look like a proper Les Paul. As for compatibility with your wider nut width, I don't honestly know. I've always gone with the standard 11/16" myself. You should call Warmoth and ask if you need a wider spaced bridge for that nut width, or if a standard Tune o Matic will do fine. By the way, if you go with a tune o matic, check out the Gotoh or the Tonepros, they fix most of the problems with the original design.

Neck pocket: The 720 mod isn't necessary, I have a Warmoth guitar with no pickguard and no 720 mod and the fretboard doesn't feel like it's too far away from the body or anything. Without the mod the fretboard is only a few millimeters off the body, and keep in mind the fretboard doesn't actually overhang very far at all with a 22 fret neck. What I would recommend, however, is a contoured heel. It is definitely NOT vintage correct or anything you'd ever see on a Gibson Les Paul, but it is incredibly helpful in reaching those last couple frets and it's not something anyone else will ever see anyway, so it won't take away from the Les Paul vibe.

Stud install: If you are unfamiliar with the concept, the tune o matic bridge and tailpiece sit on posts (or studs) that are pushed into the body. It's not too hard to do yourself, but if you aren't confident you can have Warmoth do it instead for $10.

Battery box: You only need this if you're installing active pickups or a Ghost system or something similar. You probably won't need it.

Neck wood: Mahogany is a great sounding wood, but be sure to check out the exotic raw wood necks as well. Some of the woods Warmoth offers don't require a finish, such as Goncalo Alves, Rosewod, Wenge, Pau Ferro, Bocote, Canary, etc. I made the mistake of overlooking these woods the first time I ordered a Warmoth neck, and now I'm considering replacing that neck in the future now that I've experienced the raw wood necks. If you're looking to retain the LP warmth, you should probably stick to a Goncalo Alves or Rosewood neck. Wenge is a great neckwood too, but it's more midrange focused and possibly a little brighter. Don't be put off by that though, it can be good to mix a warmer body with a brighter neck to get a best of both worlds kind of sound. Check out the LP necks in the showcase, there are some beautiful all Rosewood necks, Wenge with Ebony, and a stunning Wenge with Macassar Ebony board:

http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/Neck.aspx?i=LPN915&Body=1

Neck scale length: You didn't bring this up yourself, but this is important. Warmoth's standard scale length is 25.5". However, Les Pauls traditionally use a 24 3/4" scale length. Mostly the difference will be in the feel of the strings. A 24 3/4" scale length will make the strings a little easier to bend, but if you're an acoustic player the slightly greater string tension of a 25.5" neck shouldn't bother you. If you want a 24 3/4" scale length Warmoth makes a conversion neck that achieves this.

Fret size: This you'll have to decide for yourself. It's such a personal thing that you really just need to play a bunch of different necks and see what you like. Acoustic guitars tend to have medium to smaller sized frets I think, but playing an electric is a whole nother ball game. I personally love the 6100 frets. They are the biggest Warmoth offers, so if you are heavy handed you can push the strings out of tune, but I switch between those on my electrics and the small frets on my acoustic (with a much higher string tension) and even a bass and I don't have a problem lightening my touch for the electric. Whatever size you go with, choose STAINLESS STEEL!! They are very smooth and hard, much much harder than the standard nickle frets. This is important because they will last much much longer, meaning less fret levels (which are expensive) and less fret replacements (which are even more expensive and can only be done so many times before ruining the fretboard. If you combine the stainless steel with the 6100 size, you could go forever without replacing the frets, as long as you are ok with them getting progressively smaller over the course of your lifetime  :icon_biggrin:

Tuner holes: Figure out what tuning machines you want, then get the proper size hole. I can't recommend the Gotoh 510 tuners enough. They are the smoothest, most accurate tuners I've ever used They don't look like standard Les Paul tuners, though  :-\ I use the locking versions, but I play Strats with trems. You don't really need locking with a TOM, but it can make string changes faster. Check them out, they're great:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Gotoh_Tuners/Gotoh_Midsize_510_Tuners_with_Metal_Knobs.html
 
Roland nailed the majority of your questions, but I'll weigh in on a few also, too, as well...

Bridge spacing: The Gotoh TOM (Tune-o-matic) bridge has a 52mm spacing, you could potentially get unslotted saddles and take things a little wider, but then you'll run into alignment issues with the pole pieces on your pickups; you can also get the same graphtech material for your saddles as the nut if you like - with a fixed bridge a lot of folks may not go the graphite route, it's really down to personal taste - if you do a ton of bending you may benefit from the reduced friction, but you may be giving up some sustain/brightness to do so...

Hardware matching the nut: The black nut is going to blend with your ebony fretboard, so it'll be stealth anyway if matching it is a concern, but I think you see white plastic or bone nuts more often than anything else, anyway.  I think the chrome hardware looks terrific on the gallery pic you posted, and it's LP-vibe correct, but personal preference obviously trumps all.  I would just reiterate that if sustain is a concern, you may be better served with Corian or Tusq than graphtech, though the nut only effects the sustain of open strings.

Output Jack: I agree with Roland that 7/8" is the way to go, but if you were asking specifically about what jack to use, the basic Switchcraft stereo jack Warmoth sells is all you need.

Pickups: I love what I've heard of Bare Knuckle's stuff as well, the Mule being my favorite, though that's based on demos, not personal experience.  Other popular choices for a traditional sound would be the Seymour Duncan 59 or Pearly Gates, or Gibson themselves make good contenders, and Burstbuckers or '57 Classics would probably suit the traditional LP sound best.
 
A few concerns are the tune-o-matic bridge radius being different than the neck radius.  You can either modify the existing 12" radius to 18 or 19" to accommodate the continued flattening of the 10"/16" compound fretboard radius, or get a 12" fretboard radius to match the bridge radius. 

I don't think the flat top LP has a hollow or chambered option, so no F hole option either.

Also, no need for a wider bridge to accommodate the wider nut width.
 
With bare knuckles or any other botique pickup, i feel very strongly that YOU should be the one convincing yourself that you need it. If you don't already have well formed opinions on the pickup,  don't let a bunch of internet cork sniffers talk you into dropping a bundle on their opinion.  Especially when pickups are as easy to change as they are.  Pick a garden variety DiMarzio/Duncan/GFS whatever.

Once you've convinced your own self that sonic nirvana can only be achieved with BK/Lollar/Ida Mae or whoever the old woman at the Fender factory was, knock yourself out.

Stuff like neck widths, profiles, wood choices, wierd bridge routes that cant be easil.y changed (or require essentially wasting half your original purpose if changed) are worth a bit more thought and sifting through the opinions of strangers
 
Thanks for the help!  I think I'll go with the Duncan Seth Lovers.  My first son is named Seth, so I'll probably pick 'em just for the name (and I've heard some good things about them). 
 
neotim said:
Thanks for the help!  I think I'll go with the Duncan Seth Lovers.  My first son is named Seth, so I'll probably pick 'em just for the name (and I've heard some good things about them).

Yeah, those will sound good too.
 
ok this is one thing that wasn't talked about.

don't go wider on the bridge spacing. the reason is that you have a wider nut but the heel is a standard fender width, moving the spacing out on both ends will cause the strings to slip off the end of the frets on the e strings. especially if you have warmoth finish the ends of the frets. they get beveled a bit too much for a wide nut combined with a wide bridge.

the 720 mod is another thing, if you use a tom for a traditional lp look you need an angled pocket, the 720mod is also angled, i don't think they have a setup to combine the two angles. that means you have to either recess the bridge or use a flat mount bridge similar to a strat. obviously none of these combinations look much like a les paul. so you gotta decide where to make the compromise. either you have a gap under the fretboard, you have a recesses bridge, or an incorrect bridge. your choice.

now my input on pickups, i'd go vintage spec or close to it. you can play dark music on a bright pickup, that's what tone controls are for. but you can't get the classic tones out of a dark pickup. over wound pickups will impart their character on whatever you play, sometimes that's good, but i think that's something to do if you have multiple guitars. lower output pickups are more transparent and versatile. i can't really give you a specific answer here just don't over pay. the biggest difference between a $65 paf pickup and a $450 paf pickup is $385.
 
I think you should just get a mexi strat or tele for your first real electric, or an Ibanez semihollow or PRS SE series, play it for a year and then you'll know a lot more about what you want. Right now you don't know enough about what you want to make informed choices on all of this. If after a year you hate the regular sized neck you can just get a warmoth wide neck to slap on your fender if you go fender, and  / or upgrade as you go. The whole custom guitar thing is for people who already know what they want. If you just take a bunch of recs off a board like this you are just going to get people telling you what they like, which is not really useful to you in fact.

Also, a lot (most) people play 1 11/16 nuts for electrics - the strings are thinner, playing style changes on electric (lighter touch in general), picks are used more, you end up playing higher on the neck more often anyhow, etc. Personally I need a 1.75 nut on an acoustic but I wouldn't want one on an electric.
 
Players like George Lynch like a 1-11/16" nut installed on a 1-3/4" wide neck.

It sounded to me like the O.P. knows what he wants for the most part, with just a few aspects undecided.

The Seth Lovers are a low-output pickup as far as humbuckers go.

Couldn't one use the .720" neck pocket and then use a shim for the proper neck angle with a T.O.M. bridge??
 
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
The 720 mod isn't angled and isn't available on angled neck pockets.

it's angled nearly 1 deg. which is why they cant simply lower the angled pocket more by changing 1 line of code. it needs a different fixture to hold the body thus the reason it's not available.

when they drop the neck pocket they can't simply drop it, what that are actually doing is rotation the neck around the string saddle contact point as a pivot. 1 deg over the heel to strinng saddle distance works out to very near the .100" deeper pocket. though it makes much more sense to simply measure taper per inch and there is no no reason to put an deg value on it, but that's what people are familiar with.
 
To answer the pickups question better, it'd be good if you told us what kind of music you'd like to play.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Seths though. They're lovely.
 
Street Avenger said:
Couldn't one use the .720" neck pocket and then use a shim for the proper neck angle with a T.O.M. bridge??

Wouldn't a recessed TOM solve that?
 
yes, a recessed tom will work. also shimming would work, but i don't think they will route it with tom and 720 mod but if they do it will certainly be non refundable.
 
Roland did a great job of answering; however, I think his comment about the contoured heel was a slightly confusing though not incorrect. If I'm not mistaken all LP bodies come with a contoured heel. I don't think it's an option. Someone please correct me if this is not true.
 
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