Neck vs. Fingerboard Influence

[iamdavidmorris]

Just confirming what the consensus is here.  It seems like I've read somewhere that fingerboard wood will actually influence tone more than neck wood.  What's the conventional wisdom?  I understand that things like pickups and amps have a much bigger influence on tone.  Those are already chosen, but I know I can hear a difference between rosewood and maple fretboards.  I did once build a 1" thick Indian Rosewood neck, and fell in love with it.  Then I goofed it up pretty badly while I was working on the frets.  That has influenced my given parameters:

1. It will be a fatback neck.
2. It will be unfinished.

And, unfortunately...

3. It will be on a budget of about $300.

That probably rules out the Rosewood, but that's not so important to me, as long as it's unfinished.  Beyond that, tone matters slightly more to me than feel.  I think my top choices at this point would be either a Goncalo neck with a Pau Ferro fretboard, or a Wenge neck with an Indian Rosewood fretboard.  Which would you expect to be warmer?  My guess is the second one, but I just don't have much experience with exotic necks.

I really appreciate your help, and sorry if this has been asked and answered before.  I tried doing a little searching, but couldn't find anything specific.

Thanks,
David

 

[line6man]

It seems like I've read somewhere that fingerboard wood will actually influence tone more than neck wood. 

I've never heard that before, and it makes no sense. That's like saying the laminate top on a body has more influence than the core wood.
The frets may be attached to the fretboard, but the neck vibrates as a whole, and there is more wood on the neck shaft than the fretboard to resonate.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

It seems like I've read somewhere that fingerboard wood will actually influence tone more than neck wood. 

I've never heard that before, and it makes no sense. That's like saying the laminate top on a body has more influence than the core wood.
The frets may be attached to the fretboard, but the neck vibrates as a whole, and there is more wood on the neck shaft than the fretboard to resonate.

That makes sense.  And it's the neck wood that connects to the body, but I do believe the fretboard wood matters.  Call it tone voodoo if you want.  Maybe it affects string resonance or something.  Nonetheless, I'm trusting to the advice of those with more experience (and more guitars).

Thanks.

 

[crash]

It is definitely the neck wood that affects the tone more so that the fingerboard.  I have a wenge/ebony neck and a maple/rosewood neck.  Similar body woods on both guitars: Mahogany an Koa.  The maple/rosewood is much brighter than the wenge/ebony. 

 

[iamdavidmorris]

That's very helpful.  Ok.  Sounds like I'll be better off with Goncalo Alves, unless Warmoth throws a nice Rosewood fatback in the gallery at a good price.  Thanks, Crash.

EDIT: Incidentally, Crash (or anybody), what do you think of Wenge as compared to something like Mahogany or Rosewood for what I'm talking about.  I know it's a brighter wood, but every species has a done that goes beyond "warm" or "bright."  Walnut - my favorite acoustic wood - is a great example of that.  There's gotta be a reason Wenge is used often as a bass neck.  I'd expect it to have broad applications.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

It is definitely the neck wood that affects the tone more so that the fingerboard.  I have a wenge/ebony neck and a maple/rosewood neck.  Similar body woods on both guitars: Mahogany an Koa.  The maple/rosewood is much brighter than the wenge/ebony. 

+1  I had a Wenge/Ebony neck and Maple/Rosewood on another.  Same body wood, shape, hardware, and pickups.  BIG difference in tone.

 

[lafromla1]

Wenge neck/Ebony fretboard is a killer combo.

 

[Steve_Karl]

At one time I has 2 G&L F-100 II guitars. One ( the one I still have ) has a one piece maple neck. The other had a maple / ebony.
I swapped the necks a few times between the bodies to compare tone changes and I'm convinced that fretboard wood does make a difference,
even though it's probably not as much of a difference as the core wood.

The one piece maple was more defined and tighter in the mids ... more focused in the mids.
The maple / ebony had more or an extended range and was more open in the mids, smoother across a wider range.

I could have been construction.
The maple/maple was of course a 1 piece, not having a fretboard glued on like the maple / ebony but other than that the necks were built the same, skunk stripe in the back etc.

Here's an other thing I suspect.
The quote about "Fat necks have more tone" ... I think will eventually become known to really mean,
A fatter neck will be more dominant in the tone of the guitar, making the body have less of a tonal effect, where as a thinner neck profile will allow the body to have more influence in the overall tone of the guitar.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

And I wouldn't expect a profound difference between maple and ebony.  But if you A-B a strat with a rosewood fretboard and the same model with a maple fretboard, I think most trained ears will hear some difference.

 

[Steve_Karl]

From what I've read, Goncalo will be smoother in the mids where as Wenge will be more mid dominant.
There was a great discussion about rosewood ( core ) vs wenge (core) ... Orpheo ? I think ...

ahhh here it is: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=9110.msg125458#msg125458

Here's an other really good one:  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=14803.30

 

[Kadmium]

As a general rule, if you play in a band context, your choice of neck and fingerboard wood will have almost no noticeable effect on the sound. You could possibly tell the difference in isolation, but it would be slight. The difference between standing straight on to your amp and standing at a 45 degree angle is greater than the difference between mahogany and carbon fibre.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

Steve - Those threads are great.  Thanks.

Kadmium - Most won't hear a difference between a stock Mexican strat and an American Deluxe either, unless it's in isolation.  But I think we all want the guitar that will disappear in our hands.

 

[Steve_Karl]

You're welcome. Yes. This forum can be a gold mine at times.

 

[OzziePete]

With the majority of the working string length running over the fretboard as it vibrates, the type of wood has to have some affect upon the tone...

A maple/maple neck /fretboard is quite bright & snappy, a maple/rosewood combo less so, while a maple/ebony might be more livelier than maple/maple. It is much harder to compare say, a wenge neck to a maple neck and in either rosewood or ebony fretboard combos....but definitely a wenge/ebony would sound livelier than a wenge/rosewood.

 

[Kadmium]

With the majority of the working string length running over the fretboard as it vibrates, the type of wood has to have some affect upon the tone...

Actually, the vibrating part of the string isn't in contact with the fingerboard wood at all. The string only vibrates between the fret (or nut) and the bridge. The only bits that are in contact with the fingerboard are the muted part under your finger. In an acoustic context, all the wood choices make a little difference, but in an electric context, it's pretty much just the sound of the string vibrating over the pickup.

A maple/maple neck /fretboard is quite bright & snappy, a maple/rosewood combo less so, while a maple/ebony might be more livelier than maple/maple. It is much harder to compare say, a wenge neck to a maple neck and in either rosewood or ebony fretboard combos....but definitely a wenge/ebony would sound livelier than a wenge/rosewood.

I've heard these descriptions of these woods, too, but ultimately I think there's more confirmation bias in there than good information. When tested scientifically, generally no significant difference is found between materials. Guitarists will notethat ebony is "brighter" or that mahogany is "warmer" but when you switch to blind tests, the ability to tell which is which disappears. Nobody, in one test of master classical builders, was able to correctly identify a spruce-backed guitar from a papier-mache-backed one. All in all, it doesn't really matter what they're made out of. Pick the more functional material, rather than the one people tell you sounds the nicest.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

Actually, the vibrating part of the string isn't in contact with the fingerboard wood at all. The string only vibrates between the fret (or nut) and the bridge. The only bits that are in contact with the fingerboard are the muted part under your finger. In an acoustic context, all the wood choices make a little difference, but in an electric context, it's pretty much just the sound of the string vibrating over the pickup.

In fact, virtually all that gets picked up is the sound of the string vibrating over the pickup.  This is one reason the type of strings you use should be considered carefully in guitar design, and never be just an afterthought.  That doesn't mean the string vibration isn't affected by the wood.

I've heard these descriptions of these woods, too, but ultimately I think there's more confirmation bias in there than good information. When tested scientifically, generally no significant difference is found between materials. Guitarists will notethat ebony is "brighter" or that mahogany is "warmer" but when you switch to blind tests, the ability to tell which is which disappears. Nobody, in one test of master classical builders, was able to correctly identify a spruce-backed guitar from a papier-mache-backed one. All in all, it doesn't really matter what they're made out of. Pick the more functional material, rather than the one people tell you sounds the nicest.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcLpH5DTgV0[/youtube]

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

That is an excellent video, and I do hear differences, but I'm not as quick to attribute it to the fretboard wood alone.  First off, it's not A/B'ing the fretboards, but the guitars.  I know it's asking a lot, but a true A/B of the fretboards would be done on the same guitar, not similar ones built 16 years apart.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

That is an excellent video, and I do hear differences, but I'm not as quick to attribute it to the fretboard wood alone.  First off, it's not A/B'ing the fretboards, but the guitars.  I know it's asking a lot, but a true A/B of the fretboards would be done on the same guitar, not similar ones built 16 years apart.

That's true.  I think a better test is to listen to (or play) several guitars with different fingerboard materials, and instead of judging one as better than the other, try to identify the tonal qualities that seem consistent between materials on different guitars.  You can get the idea by watching a few more videos:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQffNqkx-mM[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2WP8Iibvzg[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9o9AvAsCM[/youtube]

I haven't watched these videos all the way through.  I just put them up as examples.  A better way to test this is to go to a big guitar store and do your own testing.

 

[tfarny]

Bah - guitars sound different from one another but if you are not blind testing with the same brand and age of strings into the same amp at the same settings, swapping out only, say, the neck (with the same construction and thickness), and finally comparing multiple maple necks against each other first, then comparing say maple versus rosewood, all totally blind, you ain't got nothing but confirmation bias. And confirmation bias is powerful - in medical trials, placebos consistently cure disease better than no apparent treatment. So to hear that people swear by those Wenge "growling mids" is not particularly surprising.
ESPECIALLY with the exotic woods, when you've usually only heard one example of them (whatever you happen to own), the whole exercise is just not useful. imhop.

 

[crash]

In the grand scheme of things, it's not work "fretting" :doh: over different types of neck woods.  Just pick one that you think looks good.  You are getting a quality neck from Warmoth, and I think that has a bigger affect than the wood type.  The pickups and amp will have the biggest affect on tone anyway.