neck pocket angle on .720 mod

[6stringer]

Anyone know what angle is necessary on the .720 pocket mod? I'm thinking of doing it on this jazzmaster project:

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=23272.0

Or more specifically, do I need the angle with a recessed Wilkinson tremolo? Won't the recessed tremolo set it lower in the body to accomodate for the lower neck? Or is recessed just to allow more downward travel for the tremolo plate, and the posts are set at the same height as a non - recessed tremolo?

 

[DangerousR6]

If memory serves, the angle isn't needed for the .720 mod...It's only for non-recessed Floyd and Stop TOM's....

 

[6stringer]

If memory serves, the angle isn't needed for the .720 mod...It's only for non-recessed Floyd and Stop TOM's....

Thanks a ton! So I should be safe leaving the dangle-angle flat for a recessed Wilkinson VS100 on a flat body?

 

[DangerousR6]

If memory serves, the angle isn't needed for the .720 mod...It's only for non-recessed Floyd and Stop TOM's....

Thanks a ton! So I should be safe leaving the dangle-angle flat for a recessed Wilkinson VS100 on a flat body?

yip.... :icon_thumright:

 

[6stringer]

If memory serves, the angle isn't needed for the .720 mod...It's only for non-recessed Floyd and Stop TOM's....

Thanks a ton! So I should be safe leaving the dangle-angle flat for a recessed Wilkinson VS100 on a flat body?

yip.... :icon_thumright:

Phew...I was worried about how I would shim that rout. Thanks for the info!

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

A recessed or non recessed Wilkinson both have no angled neck pocket.  Even if they did, the 720 mod isn't available with an angled neck pocket.

 

[6stringer]

A recessed or non recessed Wilkinson both have no angled neck pocket.  Even if they did, the 720 mod isn't available with an angled neck pocket.

I'm just going by what it says on the site:

"Our "720 Mod" lowers the floor of a standard neck pocket from .0625" to .0720".  This effectively reduces the height of the gap between the body top and the bottom of the fretboard at the 22nd fret.  We also incorporate a very slight neck pocket floor angle into this mod for best set up results. "

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Correct, but it's not to compensate for the bridge choice like the Wilky being recessed or non-recessed like a Floyd.

 

[6stringer]

Correct, but it's not to compensate for the bridge choice like the Wilky being recessed or non-recessed like a Floyd.

Hmm....any idea why they would do it for every 720 pocket? What is it to compensate for?

I would think that shifting the neck down in relation to the bridge could create high action on the upper frets. Maybe they give it a small tilt so the user wouldn't have to shim the neck. I'm just spitballing here...I really don't know.

 

[6stringer]

Okay....well, I called Warmoth. I wish I could say I'm less confused, but that would be a lie.

The salesperson I spoke with wasn't sure if there was an angle on the 720 pocket, so he asked somebody.

He was told that, despite what it says on the website, there is NO ANGLE in the pocket rout. He also said that the person he asked (who supposedly gets all his guitars setup this way with the 720 mod) shims the neck to create a back-angle to compensate for the increased action in the upper registers from the 720 mod....which would indicate that it needs to be routed at an angle, which is what the website says it is.  :icon_scratch:

I am willing to try a 720 rout on my project, but I'll probably leave it flat at first. If the action warrants a shim, I will either shim it, or create a slight angle in the pocket after the fact...if that's even possible.

Anyone have an opinion on this? I wish I knew up front what the angle should be, so I could rout accordingly.  :help:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Typically when they do offer an angled neck pocket, it is to compensate for a taller bridge sitting off a body; non-recessed Floyd, T-O-M, wraparound stop bar, etc. 

In the case of the 720 mod, it lowers the shelf for aesthetic reasons pertaining to fretboard overhang.  You'd be right in thinking the action would be higher on the upper frets because the saddles can't go any lower. 

It's the first I've ever heard of the 720 mod having any angle, if it does in fact. 

However slight, any angle designed into it is surely there to negate the need for shims. 

 

[Cagey]

If it were me, I'd wait and install the bridge and neck (no pickups or anything) first, and put a couple strings on it. High and low E, for instance. See what your range of adjustment is on the bridge saddles, and then decide whether or not to do a 720 mod. I don't think you'll need one, but if your desire for one is based on aesthetics, you'll also want to see what effect that's liable to have.

If you find you need to do it, or want to and it's not going to have detrimental side effects, then the way I've done it in the past is to use a neck pocket template such as this one from StewMac...

It gives the router something to ride on so you get a consistent bottom to the pocket. Then, you need a short follower bit such as this Whiteside 3001...

You're not going to follow the template - the bearing is going to follow the sidewalls of the neck pocket.

If you think you need an angle (you probably don't), you can mount that template/platform with a shim at one end so it puts about a 2°-3° angle on the template. That'll force the router to cut a 2°-3° angle into the floor of the pocket. Setup is everything. Shave it at first - don't try to make it in one cut. You wanna sneak up on it. A mistake here potentially trashes the body.

 

[6stringer]

If it were me, I'd wait and install the bridge and neck (no pickups or anything) first, and put a couple strings on it. High and low E, for instance. See what your range of adjustment is on the bridge saddles, and then decide whether or not to do a 720 mod. I don't think you'll need one, but if your desire for one is based on aesthetics, you'll also want to see what effect that's liable to have.

If you find you need to do it, or want to and it's not going to have detrimental side effects, then the way I've done it in the past is to use a neck pocket template such as this one from StewMac...

It gives the router something to ride on so you get a consistent bottom to the pocket. Then, you need a short follower bit such as this Whiteside 3001...

You're not going to follow the template - the bearing is going to follow the sidewalls of the neck pocket.

If you think you need an angle (you probably don't), you can mount that template/platform with a shim at one end so it puts about a 2°-3° angle on the template. That'll force the router to cut a 2°-3° angle into the floor of the pocket. Setup is everything. Shave it at first - don't try to make it in one cut. You wanna sneak up on it. A mistake here potentially trashes the body.

Thanks Cagey! You were reading my mind...but it's great to hear the method I thought I'd use echoed by a seasoned builder like yourself.

I've got that template all set...have taped around it to more tightly fit the neck.
Those Whiteside bits are amazing, aren't they? I've used the 1/2" follower bit for nearly everything so far. I've also got the 3/8" and 1/4" for the pickup and other tighter routes.

And I know what you mean about shaving the delicate routes. Much more setup time...but also much less risk.

Thanks again!

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, I really like the Whiteside tools. I've also had good luck with Bosch parts. Freud is usually good, too, but I bought a 7/8" carbide Forstner bit from them last week and it fought me tooth, fang and claw. It was as if it was 3 months old and had been used to chew through firebrick all that time.

 

[6stringer]

Yeah, I really like the Whiteside tools. I've also had good luck with Bosch parts. Freud is usually good, too, but I bought a 7/8" carbide Forstner bit from them last week and it fought me tooth, fang and claw. It was as if it was 3 months old and had been used to chew through firebrick all that time.

From my very limited experience, Forstners seem to be really bipolar....they either cut like butter, or just create burn marks and coarse chips. Not much in-between. But admittedly, I have a smaller selection to poll from. I have only used a half-dozen or more bits total.

 

[6stringer]

Correct, but it's not to compensate for the bridge choice like the Wilky being recessed or non-recessed like a Floyd.

Thanks STDC.....I think I get what you're saying...The bridge post and saddle height for a recessed vs. non-recessed tremolo are the same anyway on a given setup?

 

[Dan025]

i dont have the numbers on hand but i have done my own 720 mod (though i think mine is more like .750, the overhand lays on the body). it was at a time just before warmoth offerd it. you bassically rotate the neck mounting point around the bridge saddle.. it works out to very near 1 degree but degrees are a very inacurate way to lay it out. just measure the distance between the heel and the bridge saddles, then divide .095 by that to get the taper/inch... then you can make an angle fixture (a machinist would call this a sine plate or toolmakers knee) for making or modding a neck pocket template by fastening two parallel dowels to a board at a precise distance that's an easy number to do math. like 5" or 10" center to center. multiply the the taper/inch by the distance between the dowels and make a shim to that dimension as near as you possibly can.. alternatively you could adjust the distance between the dowels so that a common nominal size piece of lumber makes the proper shim to attain this taper/inch. then you can setup a fence on a band saw or table saw and attach your neck pocket fixture to the angle plate and shim the dowel opposite the one near the heel and run the plate with template between the fence and the sawblade. you could finish it up with a fence on a barrel sander.

if it's done right this will give you the proper angle for the router to sit. if you mess it up you can shim with paper or fill the pocket in with a wood shim and try again.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

All I know is the 720 mod with a recessed TOM gives you superlow super fast action. :headbang1:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

All I know is the 720 mod with a recessed TOM gives you superlow super fast action. :headbang1:

In fairness, it's not any lower as far as action is concerned.  It's sleeker and any fretboard overhang is minimized.