Bear in mind that I have yet to do anything with MinWax Wipe-On Poly, so this is all info that I have gathered in preparation for that moment. I have a Warmoth bass that I've been meaning to finish for over a year (!), I have the MinWax and a crap-ton of different sandpapers, and I've been gathering suggestions on how best to use it. But I haven't tested any of these suggestions yet; these are simply the guidelines I'll be using when I finally get around to working on my bass:
From Sawmill Creek forum:
Old T-shirts or the bags of cotton rags they sell at the home centers work best.
1: After the first few passes you'll have a pretty evenly loaded rag even if you're not trying. Just try to keep a wet edge. Any streaks caused by your rag drying and you can re-wet and go over the same area again.
2: What works well for me is the small I-Cant-Believe-It's-Not-Butter tubs. Pour about 1-1.5" in the tub. They're a good size for being able to dip a balled up section of the rag into and seal up good for storage for later coats. Plus if you try to apply it straight from the can you'll get the lid so sticky and gummed up that you wont get a good seal when you close it, and the poly will skin over and possibly even completely harden in the can. You dont want the rag dripping with poly. You can squeeze out any excess by just pressing the rag against the side of the tub for a second or two.
3: One direction works best and one long continous stroke if the area isn't too big. Lift up slightly as you reach edges. The stuff is thin and will run over the edge if dont watch it.
4: I've used it on quite a few things and like it. But be prepared to put a lot of coats on. This stuff needs to be put on in multiple thin coats rather than trying to get a finish done in 2-3 coats. The good news is that it dries in around 3-4 hrs, so you can do multiple coats in a day if you're lucky. You don't need to sand between every coat, but if you feel grit/nibs/gunk in the finish give it more time to dry then use a very fine paper or abrasive pad and wipe down before putting on any more coats. I usually average around 6-7 coats of MW poly on a project and generally end up sanding between every 2nd coat (more if I wasn't lucky). I generally wait about a week after the last coat then rub it out with auto rubbing compound or the Behlen equivalent. They do a good job of evening out the sheen and leaving the surface VERY smooth.
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Don't think of wiping on like you would with a brush. The idea is to wipe like you see the kid at Denny's cleaning your table. Go in swirls using a damp rag. It should not be dripping. Again think of the kid at Denny's and how wet his/her rag is.
Just get it on and let it go. Do not go back over it to get a spot you missed. You'll just mess it up. You'll get missed spots the next time around. Let it become tack free plus 30 minutes. Then wipe on the next coat. After that, let it dry 24-48 hours and lightly flat sand it with 320 paper. Then apply 3-4 more coats letting it get tack free between coats. Apply the last coat carefully and let the whole thing dry 3-5 days.
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I put the first coat on and let it dry about 2 hrs. Then another coat.. Thin coats.. let that dry 24 hrs.. Sanded w/ 320, applied another coat.. let dry 2 hours... applied another thin coat..let dry 24 hrs... sanded w/ 600 and put on another coat, let dry 2 hrs, and put on final coat.
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What ever you wipe it on with, treat the used rags as
Little FIRE TIME BOMBS.
Either discard in a Fire Safe container or lay them out flat until dry.
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For this first step I use a 1" sponge brush and try to saturate the wood just like I was using an oil finish. I let that dry for 24 hours and then apply the first of many thin coats. I use a paper towel folded up to make a small pad, wipe on a thin coat and let dry for 3 to 5 hours, depending on the temp and humidity. I will apply 2 or 3 coats this way before doing the first light sanding using either a super fine sanding sponge or 600 grit wet/dry sand paper. I repeat the procedure until I have the level of finish (or gloss) that I want - usually 5 to 7 thin coats. Remember, when you do the light sanding, all you are doing is knocking the little bumps off the finish - nothing else. Doesn't take much to remove the wipe-on, so be gentle with the sandpaper.
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Don't use the rag as a 'brush'. That is, don't try to flow it on. You'll be tempted bkz the coats build slowly. The best advice I read around here for wiping varnish is to wipe down yr piece like the boy at the soda shop cleaning tables. You kinda wipe it on and wipe it off so the surface is between damp & wet. Wipe in swirls, not in one direction.
To speed things up, you can wipe three coats on in a couple hours in quick succession. Then let the piece dry thorougly overnite before sanding nubs and doing it again. Shoot for about 9 coats.
Many people like to use gloss varnish and then knock it down to satin with steelwool, pumice, sandpaper, burlap, brownpaperbags, etc. That was hard for me. As a newbie finisher, my best results have been using gloss for all but the final coat, and then using satin for the final couple coats. You gotta be a little careful with satin though, it needs to be mixed and remixed during use.
You know, if you haven't tried yr hand at brushing, I'd highly suggest it. It's quicker and not scary once u get the hang of it.
My 'typical' sequence nowadays is to wipe on the first couple coats, then brush on the finals. I find wiping helps seal the surface so the brushing goes 'farther' on subsequent coats.
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I allow all coats to dry at least 8-12 hours before sanding and the final coat is applied. Once the final sanding is complete on the final coat, I allow a week to two to cure before the piece is put into use.
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I use it full strength with cheesecloth, sand lightly and apply a second coat. Rarely do I need to use a third coat. It give a very smooth finish and durable. I agree you need to wipe it on quickly and not "play" in it as it sets in short order.
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The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. Sort of swirl the the material on like you would if you were applying a paste wax. Don't attempt straight strokes. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a paper towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.
Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block ligthtly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.
After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.
An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some aggressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.
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It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.
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From JazzDogg’s Sanded-In Oil Finish thread:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/sanded-oil-finish-384222/
“People tend not to notice perfection, but readily notice imperfections: an award-winning project depends as much on the avoidance of conspicuous faults as it does meticulous joinery and application of finishes. When a finish has been successfully applied, people will have an urge to touch your project; to have their sense of touch confirm what their eyes have observed, and to fully appreciate the tactile qualities of the surfaces.
It makes sense for the artisan to employ these same senses during the finishing process. Use your fingers to inspect the prepared surfaces; can you feel defects or irregularities that may be observable when finish is applied? Using an inspection light at an angle to the work piece will cast shadows that will exaggerate surface imperfections; once found, they can be corrected.
One of the most common finishing errors is the failure to completely remove mill marks before finishes are applied; these kinds of imperfections will be magnified when the finish is applied. This is because the scalloped surfaces presented by mill marks expose segments of end-grain which absorb stains and finishes at a different rate than face or edge fibers.
While scraping or planing removes mill marks quickly, leaving a surface that is ready for 200-grit abrasives, the wood fibers are compressed and burnished to some extent (Tangentially, Japanese temple builders maintain their chisels and planes in such a super-sharp state that the wood fibers are compressed and burnished so effectively that water is repelled, making the application of wood finishes unnecessary).
When finishes or stains will be applied, it is important to use abrasives after scraping and planing to prepare the wood fibers to consistently receive the finish. Abrasives cut across the wood fibers, creating a condition in which the wood surface is analogous to myriad wicks, thirstily absorbing stains and finishes, and allowing them to penetrate more-or-less evenly and uniformly.
When water-based stains or finishes are applied, the wood fibers absorb the water swell, and the grain is raised, resulting in a rough surface. Deliberately raising the grain before applying water-based products minimizes this effect. After sanding through 220-grit, apply water to the wood surface and allow it to dry for 24-hours. Then, re-sand with 220-grit abrasive to remove the raised fibers, and apply the water-based product.”
“After sanding to 220-grit, prepare silicon carbide wet-or-dry sandpaper in three grits:
• 220-grit
• 320-grit
• 400-grit
• 600-grit
Tear or cut the abrasive into sizes that will be convenient and manageable when folded in thirds (I divide sheets of abrasive into eighths).
You’ll also need to prepare an ample supply of clean, absorbent, lint-free rags with which residual slurry can be removed.
Wet the wood surface with finishing oil, rubbing it in with your hands until the surface fibers are saturated. The instructor keeps his finishing oil in a squeeze bottle (with an airtight lid), for easier and better-controlled application.
Start with 220-grit and sand the oiled wood, with the grain, until a slurry of oil and sawdust is created. Once a slurry has been created you can sand in circular or figure-eight patterns. Work one small area at a time, until the surface is consistently smooth and the slurry has been packed into the open pores of the wood.
After perhaps ten or fifteen minutes, the surface(s) you have been working will be consistently sanded to 220-grit, and the slurry will have begun to thicken. Now it’s time to wipe all remaining slurry from the surface of the wood with a clean rag. The instructor uses manicurist’s orange sticks, wrapped in a clean cloth, to remove all traces of the slurry from corners and areas containing detail and tight radii.
This needs to be accomplished before the product becomes too dry and gummy to remove easily - with Liberon Finishing Oil, you have about twenty minutes. With other oil finishes, such as Minwax Antique Oil Finish, you have a little longer - perhaps three-quarters of an hour.
You will need to monitor your project for bleed-back over the next six hours. Bleed-back is the term used to describe residual oil that will ooze from the wood pores up to the wood surface as the finish polymerizes. Bleed-back will appear as small bumps of finish on the surface of the wood.
Inspect your work once an hour, wiping away bleed-back with a clean rag. Then allow the first coat to dry for 48 hours before proceeding.
When you have sanded the oil finish into the entire surface of the project using 220-grit abrasive, repeat the process with 320-grit. Wait twenty-four hours and repeat the process with 400-grit; after another twenty-four hours and repeat the process with 600-grit. Allow at least seven days for the finish to cure”
from various threads here on the Unofficial Warmoth site (apologies to the folks I'm quoting, I forgot your names). Note, some of these hints were about TruOil, but seemed germane to Wipe-On Poly application as well:
“Wood is sanded down to 800 grit, then a few drops of tru-oil rubbed in well using a scotchbrite pad to wet out the surface and sink into the pores. After 2 hours some more is applied by soft cloth; a few drops on the surface, then rubbed in well. Dry overnight, rub in another few drops, just wetting out the surface, then sand back once dry with a fine grade paper, 1200 grit to remove any nubs.
Repeat the process for about 6 - 8 light coats, rubbing back with 1200 grit every other coat. I do one in the morning before work, then another in the evening when i get home. Once you've done 6 or 8 coats and you're happy with the build-up, then allow a day or two to fully harden.
Then wet sand all over with 1200 grit using a drop of washing up liquid as added lubricant.
Finally, dry off and buff”
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“sand to 320, mix about 60% tung oil and 40% polyurethane into about a pint container. Put on some vinyl gloves and make sure you have plenty of ventilation and/or respiration. Wet the bass liberally and use the 320 wet/dry paper to wet sand (with the grain is best ) the whole bass... add the mix if things start getting sticky.
Once you have wet-sanded thoroughly, wipe off the excess and let it dry. the next day (maybe more if it's really humid) buff with 000 steel wool.
Repeat this again, adding a little more poly to the mixture......repeat the wet sanding just one more time.
After your second wet-sanding/wiping off/steel wool session, you can start just using a rag and rubbing the mixture into the wood relatively dryly. (kind of like polishing shoes)
The numbers of coats is totally dependent on your taste. Minimum I feel is three coats.
After the last coat, let it sit about a week in a nice dry location. then buff with steel wool and apply wax: I use minwax hard finishing wax or boston polish and buff vigorously. This will give you a nice finish that is pretty rugged.”
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Every time I read about another mistake made that's solely a result of working TOO hard rather than not hard enough, it registers on the scale (in my mind) as another nano-molecule in favor of a nice, relaxing, lazy half-assed work ethic. And if you try that and you're still burning through, just gonna hafta shoot for a quarter-assed work ethic next time! 0.375-assed, at the very most. Ooooh, how tiring... nap time!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXrrr... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
In all seriousness, if you thin Tru-Oil HALF-AND-HALF with naptha or mineral sprouts or Laphroaig, OR if you thin Poly HALF-AND-HALF with water, then:
put on one coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water) then you wait 30 to 45 minutes, then put on another coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water) then you wait 30 to 45 minutes, then put on another coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water); then you wait 2 hours or better, overnight. Bang it back a ways with wet/dry 220, BE CAREFUL. 320 on the edges, even 400. NO I'm not kidding. JUST A LITTLE WAYs, oh Combusto-Dude. BE CAREFUL. It's like, three swipes with very little pressure. Then:
put on one coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water) then you wait 30 to 45 minutes, then put on another coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water) then you wait 30 to 45 minutes, then put on another coat AS THIN AS POSSIBLE (which is easy cause it's just like water). And you're DONE. Just - STOP. You're DONE.***
I'm really sure of two things.
1) People screw this up because they just can't believe anything could be so easy, so they just keep going. After it was already DONE.
2)a} People who tell you to spread it on full thickness, then scrape it off, then some-thing-or-another, then spread it on full thickness, then scrape it off, then some-thing-or-another, etc., are trying to duplicate the work flow of some factory that's making 40 guitars or 75 étagères at a time. You're not.
2)b} COMPANIES that tell you to spread it on full thickness, then scrape it off, then some-thing-or-another, then spread it on full thickness, then scrape it off, then some dumbass thing-or-another, etc. - they have figured out they can trick you into wasting a whole bottle of Tru-Oil making just one guitar, instead of six. Haha! Haha!
How can throwing away scraperfull after scraperfull of perfectly good finish be a sensible thing to do?
A: The only (dint say sensible) reason you could have for scraping perfectly good finish OFF of something that you are, after all, trying to put finish ON would be because it was TOO THICK when you put it on! WO! HEY! Why, you'd almost think tha... th... bzt... bzzzt. Well, no. O.K.; You're not permitted to THINK! Just follow the instructions, O.K.?
Also:
Flat, flat flat sanding block for the flat sides. On the curves there are a few places where fingertip->paper is the only way to get in there, but for the larger curves like body edge radiuses you can still gin up something curvy - but firm. Many moons back I bought a big roll of... inner tube rubber? Something like that, I use it not just for flattish curves (curvish flats?) but for many fingertip-saving tasks. (If your fingers are tired, they hoit mommy! and you're not even done yet, you will go too fast and/or get mad - both of which are textbook preparation for screwing up).
If I was just wandering the crib in search of something flex-y, flex-y enough to deal with a changing curve - but still firm enough to keep the paper from working TOO well right under a fingertip, and not well enough everywhere else - I might be looking at cutting a section out of a plastic shampoo bottle? Or dish soap bottle? If you think about what you're trying to do and envision what it would be like if it were to be done perfectly... your brain* may fill in the blanks in a surprising way! Right in front of me right now is a plastic vitamin bottle, I could saw off the top and bottom then cut the cylinder the long way. And have a doubled-layer sanding "block" if that seemed like a good idea and it's already curved, adorably. You just don't want any part of the paper either raised up or getting more pressure within a very small pointy area.
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Q: when sanding between coats with 600 grit paper, am I wet sanding or dry sanding? I would assume it's just a light rub with dry sandpaper…
A: You surmise correctly. A light rub with dry sandpaper - then you will want to wipe with a soft cloth and naptha to get the sanding dust before you re-coat.
