Mini-hum single coil pot values?

[falcon514]

Hey all was hoping for some advice on a build. I am modifying a Nashville Tele that I picked up. The plan is to have the following pickup configuration:
Neck - Mini-Hum
Middle - Strat
Bridge - Tele

I am still a little bit new to this and am struggling with the pot values. I know that 500k is better for the mini-hum and 250k is better for the single coils. I'm torn between using a three hole control plate or getting a concentric pot for the two of them. Any thoughts on which might be the better option?

The volume knob I am planning to use a push-pull pot for use with a tapped Tele bridge pickup, again not sure which will be the best pot value for this setup.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Cagey]

If it was me, I'd use a single 500K audio taper pot. What you want can be had, but you'd better order it now if you want it delivered before 2034, as it'll be a custom part with the attendant lead times. The difference between a 250K and 500K pot on single vs. dual coil pickups isn't worth fussing over. I don't even stock 250K parts these days.

 

[Rick]

Might be interested in this ...

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=29494.0

and this ...

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=29494.msg427600#msg427600

That said, unless you're having someone match them for you, heed senor cagey's advice and go with the 500K.  I have them on a tele I made with Bill Lawrence pups and I love it.

This other set would be good because you wouldn't have to sand the neck pup to fit the warmoth pickguard (It's a seymour).  It also uses 500k pots.  The people at sigler are really nice, and if you call them, very helpful as to making choices and matching things:

https://www.siglermusiconline.com/products/fender-tele-telecaster-loaded-pickguard-duncan-brent-mason-pickups-blue-shell

Enjoy your nashville tele journey, it's a lot of fun.

Keep us posted on how it goes. 

 

[falcon514]

If it was me, I'd use a single 500K audio taper pot. What you want can be had, but you'd better order it now if you want it delivered before 2034, as it'll be a custom part with the attendant lead times. The difference between a 250K and 500K pot on single vs. dual coil pickups isn't worth fussing over. I don't even stock 250K parts these days.

Just to make sure I'm following, you're recommending one 500k as a tone control for all 3 pups? 500k for volume as well?

 

[Cagey]

Yup. You'll love it. Makes everything so much easier.

 

[falcon514]

Thanks for the tip, I think I will go with those values! Doing some more research, I think I am going to go for the Brent Mason style blend knob for the middle pickup as well.

 

[falcon514]

Found this diagram for a Brent Mason-style 3 knob control. Was wondering if this diagram would work with my setup as it uses stacked coils whereas I am just using standard single coils and a single conductor mini-hum in the neck.

Diagram:
https://imgur.com/a/HszBkWi

 

[Rick]

one more thing when I found that sigler could put it together for me more cheaply than if I sourced it myself I went with them. 

For wiring diagrams I always start with Seymour Duncan website.

 

[stratamania]

For the wiring diagram.

For the Bridge pickup just ignore the red and white wires of the diagram. The other hot, ground and shield will be the same. If you have no shield wire the other two will be the same. The colours may differ depending on the manufacturer.

Middle pickup. The hot wire goes to the middle lug of the pot. The ground wire goes to the terminal to the right where the black wire is shown. Ignore the push pull part of the pot, but wire the other parts the same. You also, of course, do not need a push-pull pot.

Your mini humbucker should be wired the same as the diagram, hot wire to the switch and the shield to ground.

 

[falcon514]

Middle pickup. The hot wire goes to the middle lug of the pot. The ground wire goes to the terminal to the right where the black wire is shown. Ignore the push pull part of the pot, but wire the other parts the same. You also, of course, do not need a push-pull pot.

Thanks so much for the help! Just wanted to double check with you on one step. For the middle pickup you said to connect ground to the lug on the righthand side. Should I have a second wire that comes out of that lug going back to ground on the back of the volume pot as shown in the diagram?

 

[stratamania]

Middle pickup. The hot wire goes to the middle lug of the pot. The ground wire goes to the terminal to the right where the black wire is shown. Ignore the push pull part of the pot, but wire the other parts the same. You also, of course, do not need a push-pull pot.

Thanks so much for the help! Just wanted to double check with you on one step. For the middle pickup you said to connect ground to the lug on the righthand side. Should I have a second wire that comes out of that lug going back to ground on the back of the volume pot as shown in the diagram?

Yes, you would still need that second wire shown in black on the diagram to a grounding point which is shown to the back of the volume pot in the diagram.

What this should result in with the middle pickup is when the pot is turned up the middle pickup should be blended in with whatever else is selected and when it is turned down there will be less to no blend. At this point, if you pardon the pun you will be Hot Wired. Update the thread and let us know how you got on.

For those who don't get the pun...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Ufi3C1cy8
[/youtube]

Brent Mason - Hot Wired.

 

[falcon514]

Thanks for the help everyone! All wired up for my first modification and it sounds great.

I've got a Seymour Duncan Mini-Hum in the neck, Eric Johnson Strat in the middle and Seymour Duncan Five Two Tele in the bridge.

 

[stratamania]

Cool. Did the wiring work out a suggested?

 

[falcon514]

Been a little while since I posted, but have run into a small snag. The wiring works out, but what I noticed is my middle pickup blend has a volume jump on the pot akin to a linear pot, but I opened it up to double check and it is an A500k. Not sure what's making it have that jump, but the blend is nearly inaudible until getting up towards the full turn. Same with the master volume knob. Any ideas what this could be?

 

[rgand]

It sounds like what you're describing is what you'd expect from an audio taper. A linear taper (B500K) would be a constant increase or decrease all the way through the adjustment.

 

[Cagey]

It sounds like what you're describing is what you'd expect from an audio taper. A linear taper (B500K) would be a constant increase or decrease all the way through the adjustment.

You would think so, but that's not how it works. I know it's counter-intuitive, but the reason "audio" taper pots exist is because human hearing is not linear. It's logarithmic. Eyesight's the same way. In both cases, it protects those senses from damage. If it were not so, the senses would become overwhelmed early on in the range they're expected to operate in.

What he's describing sounds like a linear pot is in use, as it would return that kind of behavior. But, if one is to trust the markings, the correct pot was used. I think if it was me, I'd put a meter on it to prove it out. If the center to either side is roughly equal in resistance when the pot's wiper is set midway, it's a linear pot. NFG for any kind of "volume" use. Wouldn't be the first time a component was mis-labeled.

 

[falcon514]

Thanks Cagey! I'll have to take a look with my meter when I get home and check for myself. It was a cheaper pot from guitar center so maybe there was a mislabeling. I have some spare ones at home that I can swap out if it turns out to be a mislabeled linear pot. After that I may bring it by my local luthier who does some excellent work.

The tone sounds absolutely great on the guitar, but with the linear pot it's sort of an on/off switch rather than a nice blend of the strat pup.

 

[rgand]

It sounds like what you're describing is what you'd expect from an audio taper. A linear taper (B500K) would be a constant increase or decrease all the way through the adjustment.

You would think so, but that's not how it works. I know it's counter-intuitive, but the reason "audio" taper pots exist is because human hearing is not linear. It's logarithmic. Eyesight's the same way. In both cases, it protects those senses from damage. If it were not so, the senses would become overwhelmed early on in the range they're expected to operate in.

What he's describing sounds like a linear pot is in use, as it would return that kind of behavior. But, if one is to trust the markings, the correct pot was used. I think if it was me, I'd put a meter on it to prove it out. If the center to either side is roughly equal in resistance when the pot's wiper is set midway, it's a linear pot. NFG for any kind of "volume" use. Wouldn't be the first time a component was mis-labeled.

I've heard this before but my ears hear it the opposite. I prefer linear pots on the volume because it delivers much more evenly. Audio pots drive me nuts trying to get just a little more (or less) volume. My Tele was nothing, nothing, nothing, wide open. When I changed the pot to linear, it worked right.

 

[Cagey]

You're not alone. Some others describe the same behavior. It can happen when there are impedance or I/O level mismatches. Sometimes, it's desirable as the effect is to change the signal's character rather than the perceived volume level. For example, when the volume is set at "7" or "8", the signal is matched a bit better so you get a relatively "clean" signal, but bumping it up to "10" doesn't really increase the volume, it just makes the signal "crunchier". What's happening is the amp or effect's input is getting overdriven, driving it into distortion. Like a compressor, you lose dynamic range, but for some playing styles that may be a fair price. Billy Gibbons and Eddie VanHalen do it a LOT, for instance. To many people's ears, it sounds as if there's a pedal of some sort kicking in, but it's actually just a slight volume pot adjustment while playing.

If you get that behavior on multiple guitars, it's less likely the guitar is the culprit, it's the sfx chain or amp's input being too sensitive. It's not a Bad Thing - as I said, sometimes it's desirable - it's just something you work with.

 

[rgand]

You're not alone. Some others describe the same behavior. It can happen when there are impedance or I/O level mismatches. Sometimes, it's desirable as the effect is to change the signal's character rather than the perceived volume level. For example, when the volume is set at "7" or "8", the signal is matched a bit better so you get a relatively "clean" signal, but bumping it up to "10" doesn't really increase the volume, it just makes the signal "crunchier". What's happening is the amp or effect's input is getting overdriven, driving it into distortion. Like a compressor, you lose dynamic range, but for some playing styles that may be a fair price. Billy Gibbons and Eddie VanHalen do it a LOT, for instance. To many people's ears, it sounds as if there's a pedal of some sort kicking in, but it's actually just a slight volume pot adjustment while playing.

If you get that behavior on multiple guitars, it's less likely the guitar is the culprit, it's the sfx chain or amp's input being too sensitive. It's not a Bad Thing - as I said, sometimes it's desirable - it's just something you work with.

Thanks. That could explain it. With this in mind, I'll have to stick an audio pot in something and see what comes of that. Maybe on my current build.