Metallic paint finishing question

[spauldingrules]

Ok, so I finished my alder strat with (first the appropriate primer) and then Cobalt Blue Rustoleum Metallic paint. This:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=30

It looks great, but I don't know what to do next. Their website says I can use their "Crystal Clear Enamel", this:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=166

But it takes a long time to dry, and I'm a little skeptical about the enamel. Can I wet sand (or should I) the Metallic paint? Will the clear enamel ruin the metallic look? Can I use Minwax Gloss Poly over this type of paint? The paint job is great now, just needs a little buffing/wet sanding (if I can do that).

Any other brands? I'm not up on what melts what, etc., so any advice will be appreciated.

Pics will follow once I am done.

Thanks!

 

[-CB-]

I gotta say it....

You should have planned the finish from beginning to end, and had the materials in hand (or at least been certain of their availability) before you started applying anything.

Here's the thing - consumer grade, rattle can, one part enamels are usually very soft, and tend to look good but not wear the best.  In my experience, they're usually too soft to effectively wet sand unless applied very very thin. 

You'll need to clear coat that finish with something.  You really cant wet sand and buff out a metallic finish directly, or you risk messing up the entire "lay" of the flake pattern ... it'll look terrible.  So you want to apply a clear, then level and buff the clear.  The clear should be a thick finish, since you'll be sanding it... and dont want to sand through.  My recent experience with the blue sparkle Telecaster says go heavy on the clear!

You got a few choices.  First choice, strip the blue, and reshoot it in lacquer, where known hard finish clear lacquers are available.  The other choice is to go get some SprayMax 2k clear.  Get the one hour drying kind, and you'll also need - NEED - a respirator (abuot $35 for a 3m one), and it needs organic filters.  A simple dust mask will not do, as the fumes from the SprayMax are very strong and harmful if inhaled in any quantity.  Its a safe product - just use the breather,  and you're set to go.  In fact, the breather is good whenever you paint ANYTHING, so consider it an investment.  Do a test with the SprayMax 2k clear.  It should lay over the enamel ok, as its also ok over lacquer.  The SprayMax is a very durable, hard coat, auto finish that you cant hardly dig a fingernail into.  It dry sands to dust, and wet sands evenly and beautifully.  It buffs out nice with Mother's polish followed by Turtle Wax white compound - then some regular old car wax.

My best advice - get the mask, you'll be happy with that.  Get the 2k and test it... but I'm nearly certain it will be ok. 

This 2k is a TWO PART epoxy in ONE CAN.  Its a can within a can, and you use a (provided) key to release the inner can's hardener into the main mix.  You shake, and its ready to go.  Apply, and stick the can in the refrigerator.  Two hours later you can give it a light sanding and apply another coat.  Do that three or four times, all within one day.  You only have ONE day to use it once you initiate it, so plan it out and make sure you can do it all.  Once you do, you're set to go.  Give it a whole day to set up, or even two days, then take off the orange peel and buff it out.

I'm sure others will have some additional ideas....

 

[spauldingrules]

CB - you're right about the planning.  But I've used this paint before with no clear and it looks fine. 

Will the wipe on poly work over it?  I've gotten nice finishes with that.

 

[-CB-]

Yah.... I didn't mean that so much as for you, as for anyone who might be reading..... you just happened to be "victim du jour".  No personal offense meant at all!~  :icon_thumright:

As for the wipe on poly.. hey try it.  Might be ok, dunno.  Depends on how you want it to look when its done.

I do know... the 2k stuff... very very pro results from a rattle can.  It was made for shops that want to do touch ups and need to give a quick shot to something without having to mess too much.  Such as - you're buffing out a refin or repair, and @#$@# you went thru.  Get out that days can of 2k, shoot it, blend it, let it go... go to lunch, come back and wet sand and finish the buff out.  They use it a lot in tight places too - inside door frames is one they frequently quote as being a body shop fav, or.. having to fix a quick ding when you're doing repairs so its back to acceptable.  I've been told by my bud in the body biz that they'll use it when they happen to not be doing any big time spray work that day, but need a quick shot of clear.  The results is "factory", as its the same type of paint, just in a unique quick to use, premixed rattle can with a PRO type nozzle on it.

 

[spauldingrules]

I'm not particular about level of glossiness - I just want it to look nice and be protected a little bit.  I play a lot, rehearse and gig and none my my guitars get close to "relic" looking.  I don't know how people get their guitars to look like that unless it is intentional, or at least reckless.

 

[-CB-]

That works... fully understand.

FWIW, my old 72 Telecaster plain jane blonde/maple guitar was relic'd by use.  I got rid of it in 77... and it had quite a bit of wear.  Bumping into music stands, mic stands, other crap.  Stood less then great stuff during breaks.  Case hit it a times, left dings in the top.  Some wear on the back.  It was on its way to character building ...

Lets see pics! More pics!

 

[spauldingrules]

Welly well well I tried Minwax Wipe on Gloss Poly over the Rustoleum Metallic and...  it works fine and looks great!  I did it under the pickguard area in case there was a reaction, and it looks nice and glossy and feels smooth.  It's been about 15 hours so I am assuming if something bad was going to happen it would have done so by now.

Just in case you were curious.  Probably not.

 

[-CB-]

Thats good to know.  Lets see the pics~~~!~!~!~!@~!~~~~

 

[Alfang]

My rule of thumb for myself is, enamel is a shoot and done paint, no sanding.  Like =CB- said, it's too soft and takes years to dry, and even after years can have a rubbery texure when trying to sand.

Laquer all the way for me....

 

[spauldingrules]

Okay - got some pics.  I posted them at the TDPRI board, which allows me to post them directly.  Check out this link:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/finely-finished/197494-do-i-need-should-i-clearcoat-what.html

Let me know what you think!

 

[-CB-]

No offense there ol' bean... but if you're not a member of that place, you cant view pictures posted there.

How about just posting them HERE instead?

 

[Cagey]

I've done some painting with catalyzed enamels/urethanes, and was always highly pleased with the results. Never tried it on wood, though. It was all cars and trucks. But, when you shoot it, it looks like what you'd expect from freshly sprayed paint - somewhat orange peeled. Then, you wait a couple minutes, and it flows out. Looks like wet glass. First time I did it, I was told it would set up very fast, like in 10-15 minutes. Checked on it after that, and it still looked like wet glass. So, I sat down, had a beer and a smoke, checked it again. Still looked like wet glass. So, I lightly touched it inside a fender well to see what was going on. No tack. Gave it a rub. No tack. Stuff was hard and dry! Couldn't believe it! Best looking paint job I'd ever done, and I was done! No sanding, buffing, polishing, nothing. Just loved it. The only thing I didn't like was the price - I was paying ~$100/gal for the stuff, compared to about $20 for lacquer. Plus, it's wicked toxic, so you need a respirator. But, it saved 20 hours of follow-up work, so it was well worth it.

Now I see you can get that in a spray can with a good nozzle? I'm going to have to try that on something.