Wana_make_a_guitar
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Maybe a Seymour Duncan Metal mayhem, i tried one, i liked it.Jmohill said:
Mesa lonestar
- Thread starter woj74
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jackthehack
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woj74 said:
Looking through an older post from CB referencing rebuilding older Fender tweed amps and some custom amps he builds from his mods to Fender tweed circuit designs, he specifically recommends Webers or Eminence Alinico 102s...
CB - Which Weber series were you specifically referring to, the California Alnico 10/12s?
I'll defer to CB, he's probably forgotten more than I know.
I'm not a huge huge fan of Weber speakers. The better lines they provide are good, but some say they lack sparkle and character. That is, when other speakers are termed "brittle" the Webers might be termed a bit "soft". The bluesmen seen to like them for medium volume playing, where the speaker itself is not breaking up.
There are two sleeper speakers, one still made - the Eminence alnico 10 and 12 inch. The 10's are still made. These are a 25w speaker, with a medium cone stiffness, and once broken in have a fantastic tone, closer to the old Jensen alnico than either the "too soft" Weber, or the "way too brittle" modern reissue Jensen (which is Jensen in name only, made by Sica in Italy). Check eBay and you can sometimes find the Eminence Alnico Legend 10's new for $39 each.... or less! This is the speaker Fender used in the Bassman reissue, and the speaker that gave that amp a terrible reputation in the beginning. In todays "need it now" world, folks failed to break in the speakers adequately, and were not happy with the bottom end. Trust me... trust me.. Trust Vic108. Once you play these the bottom will blossom out and give you rich deep low end.
Another GREAT speaker is the V12-30 Celestion, no longer made but you can find them. This is a more "American" sounding speaker, that is, it has less of a mid range rise than the typical Brit-toned speakers from Celestion. Think of it as a hybrid 60w speaker, good for quite a lot actually. It has a deep low end, and a sparkly top that is free from brittle tones after just a little playing to loosen them up. I've used this on 5w Champs, and it works wonders even at that low volume.
Similar, but a bit nicer actually, the Vintage 30, another 60w hybrid tone speaker. The V30 has a little less rise even than the V12-30, and is a great speaker in your Fender 2x12 or even 1x12... or 4x12 cabinet.
If you can find them - the Electro-Voice EV-FORCE 12's are "the poor man's JBL". These are heavy cast structure speakers, with nice smooth and sparkly top end like the JBL had, and low end response to 40cycles. Yes Four-Zero 40. Amazingly tight, not boomy, not agressive, just totally "there" and transparent. This is a jazz players fantastic toned speaker, with tight bottom... transitioning smoothly through the mids to a sparkly and well balanced top.
Dont discount the clean-toned Celestion Neo magnet speakers. These kick major major butt. I mean MAJOR butt. A bit different than either the Brit classic or American classic tone.... I'd call them another very transparent speaker, a bit uncolored and balanced. Almost like a sound reinforcement speaker. This is another good jazz speaker, or for steel guitar too. I can see country players liking it as well Now here's the kick butt part - they are ubber-loud. I mean beyond. They have the highest SPL of any speaker made for guitar. At 102db, they given an effective wattage doubling of volume. That is, a guitar amp using a 99db speaker (still considered an excellent SPL) would have to have twice the wattage to deliver the same volume as the amp using the 102db speaker. Most "OEM and off the shelf" speakers are about 95-98db speakers. A three dB gain is what you get when you double the amps wattage. It is the threshold of perceptible volume change.
JBL D120 (grey) or D120F (orange for Fender) are not hard to come by. Finding an original is hard, but then again, get the beater, expect the recone, and you're all set. Factory equal cone kits are available for JBL speakers, no problem. Once coned up, your JBL will sound like a NEW JBL, and need some breaking in to smooth out. I have no reference on what that takes.... but I'd imagine its the usual moderate volume, for 5 hours or so before things really smooth out.
This breaking in thing - you can play bass thru your speaker, and a volume that does not break up at the speaker.... and break it in in an hour or so of playing. Guitar takes longer, takes more volume to loosen up the surround and spider, and soften the cone.
There are two sleeper speakers, one still made - the Eminence alnico 10 and 12 inch. The 10's are still made. These are a 25w speaker, with a medium cone stiffness, and once broken in have a fantastic tone, closer to the old Jensen alnico than either the "too soft" Weber, or the "way too brittle" modern reissue Jensen (which is Jensen in name only, made by Sica in Italy). Check eBay and you can sometimes find the Eminence Alnico Legend 10's new for $39 each.... or less! This is the speaker Fender used in the Bassman reissue, and the speaker that gave that amp a terrible reputation in the beginning. In todays "need it now" world, folks failed to break in the speakers adequately, and were not happy with the bottom end. Trust me... trust me.. Trust Vic108. Once you play these the bottom will blossom out and give you rich deep low end.
Another GREAT speaker is the V12-30 Celestion, no longer made but you can find them. This is a more "American" sounding speaker, that is, it has less of a mid range rise than the typical Brit-toned speakers from Celestion. Think of it as a hybrid 60w speaker, good for quite a lot actually. It has a deep low end, and a sparkly top that is free from brittle tones after just a little playing to loosen them up. I've used this on 5w Champs, and it works wonders even at that low volume.
Similar, but a bit nicer actually, the Vintage 30, another 60w hybrid tone speaker. The V30 has a little less rise even than the V12-30, and is a great speaker in your Fender 2x12 or even 1x12... or 4x12 cabinet.
If you can find them - the Electro-Voice EV-FORCE 12's are "the poor man's JBL". These are heavy cast structure speakers, with nice smooth and sparkly top end like the JBL had, and low end response to 40cycles. Yes Four-Zero 40. Amazingly tight, not boomy, not agressive, just totally "there" and transparent. This is a jazz players fantastic toned speaker, with tight bottom... transitioning smoothly through the mids to a sparkly and well balanced top.
Dont discount the clean-toned Celestion Neo magnet speakers. These kick major major butt. I mean MAJOR butt. A bit different than either the Brit classic or American classic tone.... I'd call them another very transparent speaker, a bit uncolored and balanced. Almost like a sound reinforcement speaker. This is another good jazz speaker, or for steel guitar too. I can see country players liking it as well Now here's the kick butt part - they are ubber-loud. I mean beyond. They have the highest SPL of any speaker made for guitar. At 102db, they given an effective wattage doubling of volume. That is, a guitar amp using a 99db speaker (still considered an excellent SPL) would have to have twice the wattage to deliver the same volume as the amp using the 102db speaker. Most "OEM and off the shelf" speakers are about 95-98db speakers. A three dB gain is what you get when you double the amps wattage. It is the threshold of perceptible volume change.
JBL D120 (grey) or D120F (orange for Fender) are not hard to come by. Finding an original is hard, but then again, get the beater, expect the recone, and you're all set. Factory equal cone kits are available for JBL speakers, no problem. Once coned up, your JBL will sound like a NEW JBL, and need some breaking in to smooth out. I have no reference on what that takes.... but I'd imagine its the usual moderate volume, for 5 hours or so before things really smooth out.
This breaking in thing - you can play bass thru your speaker, and a volume that does not break up at the speaker.... and break it in in an hour or so of playing. Guitar takes longer, takes more volume to loosen up the surround and spider, and soften the cone.
Thank you CB for your helpful lecture. Unfortunatelly the more i read the less i know. You haven't mention any of Eminence speakers. Are they not worth any attention or they don't match what i'm thinking of. I may be wrong but most of speakers recommended as replacement for Fender amps are described as Brit-flavor including famous Vintage 30. I thought it would be different. Also,i heard many bad words about new Celestion speakers since they've moved the production to China. What do you think about Eminence neo-magnet speakers like Lil' Texas or Tonkerlite?
NeilStryker
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jackthehack
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:icon_scratch: In the second paragraph of his post CB specifically recommended the Legend Alnico 10"; would make for nice 4X10 cab I would think
I must have missed that, ups. Probably because i'm thinkin 12". Just listened to Eminence audio samples on their page and sth touched me. Don't know if speaker's name has sth to do with a bit of magic but The Wizard seems to be what i was looking for. Either sound sample, text description or my technical requirements as wattage and impedance make me think i found the one !( or a pair in fact). Moreso, harmony central rewieves confirm my feelings.
jackthehack
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Don't dismiss a 4x10 out of hand; many of the classic recordings from SRV, Hendrix and many other guitar heroes you listen to were recorded using blackface Fender Super Reverbs.
You right with 4x10 but another 2 speakers would substantially increase total cost of the cabinet. I just ordered 2 Governors and 2 Wizards. I will try 2XGov, 1Gov+ 1Wiz and 2 Wiz cobination and will see what is best for me. Then i will ebay remaining 2 speakers.
I have just bought a Lonestar long head and Mesa 2 x 2x12 cabs and also a 4 x 10 cab so that i am able to choose any speaker vairiation from s single 4x10, One or two 2x12 ...or even 1x 4 x 10 and 1 x 2x12 running at 4 ohms .. I am delighted with all the clean options running any variations of speaker enclosure but need to experiment more with the overdrive channel and variations of tone applicabale to PRS C22 and PRS 513 That the Lonestar is capable of providing. The 4 x 10 offers a brighter option obviously than the 12" options but the mix of both provides a beautiful range of tone.woj74 said:
I havent yet gigged this rig until I feel more confidant in its ability but so far it all looks very promising.
The only minor gripes that I have are the following;
(1)Channel Indicator light on amp only indicates clean channal. No visual indication (other than green channel light going out) is available when changing to over drive channel.
(2) The Reverb footswitch isnt included in the price as standard and has to be purchased as an optional extra. This pedal is 1/4 jack to 1/4 std jack and the connection is actually on the chassis of the amp and a tad fidly to get at. I have since wired a lead in permenant and cable tied the lead to the exteror of the valve cage. The head offers a small cavity retaining the cable after use.
Conclusion; Very well built amp ( and it should be for the price!!! ) exterior well finnished off and I do like the quick release castor option that I had fitted to all my Bogie cabs.
Geoff
I've been looking at mesa's.. I have a question for all you gurus. I want tone like Yngwie when overdriven, and sexy hot cleans. Is there a boogie for me?
Currently I use a solid state Marshall for my overdrives (With my tonelab so there is some tube at least) and a Vox AC15 for my hot sexy cleans.
Luke
Currently I use a solid state Marshall for my overdrives (With my tonelab so there is some tube at least) and a Vox AC15 for my hot sexy cleans.
Luke
Coming back to my Lonestar story.
Last summer i built a DIY cabinet 2x12 with Eminence Governors. It's made of baltic birch plywood closed back. It's a very fast and powerfull cabinet but sounds very well with Dual REctifier head which own my friend. So it's become his property for that reason.
That's the cabinet
I finally realized that my Lonestar would sing his songs thru a totally different cabinet. I've just built a new one. Solid pine construction with birch plywood baffle, open-back 2x12. It's powered by Alnico speaker form Fane. I bought it from a german small shop that makes replicas of golden era amps www.audioampco.com. I played their amp at Musikmesse Frankfurt, Germany this spring. The sound killed me - nothing more to say. They say the Fane speaker they offer is custom made for them. I presume it's AXA Axioms 12"but anyway it sounds great. It's damn expensive so i own one for the moment. Plan to make a pair of them soon.
That's my new DIY cabinet:
I built it in kind a Fender style but with tilted baffle. One speker hole is covered by a piece of plywood and waiting for another speaker.
Last summer i built a DIY cabinet 2x12 with Eminence Governors. It's made of baltic birch plywood closed back. It's a very fast and powerfull cabinet but sounds very well with Dual REctifier head which own my friend. So it's become his property for that reason.
That's the cabinet
I finally realized that my Lonestar would sing his songs thru a totally different cabinet. I've just built a new one. Solid pine construction with birch plywood baffle, open-back 2x12. It's powered by Alnico speaker form Fane. I bought it from a german small shop that makes replicas of golden era amps www.audioampco.com. I played their amp at Musikmesse Frankfurt, Germany this spring. The sound killed me - nothing more to say. They say the Fane speaker they offer is custom made for them. I presume it's AXA Axioms 12"but anyway it sounds great. It's damn expensive so i own one for the moment. Plan to make a pair of them soon.
That's my new DIY cabinet:
I built it in kind a Fender style but with tilted baffle. One speker hole is covered by a piece of plywood and waiting for another speaker.
O
OzziePete
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Yeah, excellent work on the cabinets woj. Real neat looking work done. :icon_thumright:
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