Make a grown man cry. How to build a sad sounding blues guitar...

[tfarny]

Woah you guys love to rant today! +1 to everything that Jack and Patrick said. Lots of the best art comes from personal loss; there's no real difference between tears in heaven (though, god, I do hate that song) and your average break up song in that respect. That's just how music gets made.
Who was the guy who said that Clapton isn't the blues but Duane Allman is? Ah, there's a record called "Layla and other songs" you might want to listen to one day, it's interesting if you look at the liner notes....
As far as the blues being dead, lots of people kinda feel like that whole "guitar rock" thing is dead as an art form too. And a bunch of you guys love 80's hair bands! Cracks me up.
Best idea: don't listen to anybody, just like what you like. If it's not trendy ( ie its "dead") now, it'll come back eventually. The worst thing to do would be try to classify stuff as 'blues' or 'blues-based rock". Leave it to the stiffs at Best Buy who make those bins.....

OP: Just figure out what kind of blues sound you want, either your trad tele / acoustic, Gibsony, or whangy strat type,  and get it. If you have the skills, you'll make people cry and the gear won't matter. If you don't have the skills, the gear will matter even less!

 

[thumb55]

I really hope none of my comments are taken as Clapton bashing, they aren't.  I only really brought him up because I feel like he is a faithful student of the blues, respectful of those before him and a artist who gives young blues players some exposure from time to time.  And he is not afraid to say he listened to or occasionally sound like another player.  

I agree with Jack about 2 things (in this thread) #1 this IS one of the more stupid things discussed on the board.  #2 the blues is about connecting your personal pain to the music.  Both for the player and the listener.  It helps you to express your feelings and it just might touch someone who is off in a dark place and needs someone or something to say it's ok.  I have a real soft spot for that Derek and the Dominos disk for just that reason.  (in what seems like another lifetime I spent a LOT of time playing that stuff)

Have I had a big life changing loss in my life? No.  Do I have to to play the Blues? I've had bad times but nothing tragic.

having said all of that, the player makes it sound sad.  whatever guitar you might be playing.

 

[Superlizard]

This is spiraling out of control quickly.

Spiraling out of control quickly?

I never realized that voicing one's dissenting opinion = spiraling outta control.

I don't agree with you - that's not too hard to handle, is it?

 

[Shandrazar]

This is spiraling out of control quickly. I never said they were greedy, heartless or scumbags. I just said I find the indiscriminate public airing of very personal grief to be distasteful. And doing it for profit is, in my opinion, unethical.
Let's face it, if your son or my son was the one that died due to parental negligence, not only would we have not sold a single copy of any song written about it, we would have been brought up on charges.
So yes, Clapton capitalized on his tragedy, and had a built-in audience to support his questionable decision.
By your "logic", all's well that ends with a platinum hit.

Now you are just short of having Clapton say "I need a new song" - SHOVE.  That really pisses me off.

The man lost is son.  As the father of a girl about the same age as Clapton's son when he died, I can say that loosing my daughter would just about destroy me.  As a musician, Clapton dealt with the grief by writing a song.  It was a good song.  He was convinced by others to release the song.  It became a hit.  To you, that makes him evil.  To me it doesn't.  Also, you are too quick to call the boy's death criminal negligence.  I don't know the details of his son's death, but I do know that no matter how hard you try to childproof things there is always some way a toddler can find something dangerous to do.  You also can't watch a child 24/7 for years on end.  Together, these things mean that even good, caring, attentive parents can loose a child.  Unless you can present solid evidence of criminal negligence I think you should be willing to accept the authorities judgment that it was an unfortunate accident.

 

[TroubledTreble]

Blues is a healing thing..

Today people are far removed from the setting that originally created the blues. How many people are in the fields all day, work as share croppers or really know what its like to be oppressed. Granted that oppression, racisim and other terrible things that people do to each other still exist, but the climate that existed around the birth of the blues does not exist very much any more, thankfully.

I love the blues. Today I find myself listening to less and less of the modern players due to the watered down nature of it. There are a few knarley players still out there that evoke the emotion and project that soulful healing sound. Unfortunatly some of todays blues is becoming a lot like "cool jazz". Now we have a bunch of middle aged waspy chardonay drinkers sitting in thier Mercedes listing to what they call jazz which is jazz that has been transformed into some watered down version of its formal self. Ugggh!  I hear so called blues songs that are about dealing with office equipment. "Color copier blues"???!!! Really is that so terrible or such a part of your life that it makes you sing about it? If so, I don't want to hear it!

People like SRV who may not be what folks call blues, did do a service to blues by turning on a lot of people towards the blues. His style while not "pure blues" did have a soulful feel and evoke emotion, and even tell a story while making me tap my feet. To me that is what blues is.

Blues is not a guitar, but the content of ones self and the ability to get it out. While we all have our own struggles and we should create music about it we need to be careful about putting the blues label on it. It's kind of like the 90's when all of a sudden everything was spelled with an "X" because everything was "extreme!". Give me a break!

I do understand the need to build an instrument that would give us that sad blues sound. The feel, the need to get it out. Unfortunatley nothing can replace what you already have, some fingers, a soul, and that feeling deep down that is uniquely you.

 

[ildar]

This hero worship thing some of you guys have is hilarious to me. I don't mind if my views aren't agreeable to the general public, but I'm not the one calling other people stupid little names to dismiss their points. Jack, I expected better of you. I'll put my English skills up against yours any time, old man.
The kid died from a fall out of a window from 30 floors up, if I recall. He wasn't even under the care of his parents, but of a nanny. You would think that someone with Clapton's bucks (pounds?) would have the money to put bars on his windows as a safety precaution. That is, unless he was scoring smack at the time. An accident is something unforseen that could not be prevented. Negligence is not taking the precautions you must to insure the safety of your child.
There is a plethora of drowning deaths here in south Florida. Toddlers routinely make their way into the many in-ground pools, and die. Why? Because of the negligence of their parents. They usually get charged. If they write a song about it, who's buying it?
Show of hands?

 

[GoDrex]

If it's a good song people would buy it. I wasn't a fan of Tears In Heaven, but I'm certain it made a lot of people feel good, which is what it's all about anyway.

 

[Vol. Knob]

Ifn emotional pain is what causes a musician to go from "playing music" to "playing blues", then GODFLESH is a blues band.  Justin Broaderick's father tied him to a chair when he was 10 and tried to kill him by injecting him with heroin and cleaning fluid.  GODFLESH was a blues band.  

Was Django Reinhardt a blues guitarist?  After all, whats more devastating for a guitarist than burning your fretting hand horribly?

Roy Orbison's wife and daughters died in a fire.  Was he a blues player?  He never wrote a song about it.

I personally can't stand SRV because I don't like his singing, I don't like his tone, I think his playing sounds... well... cheesy and fake.  Sure, he can play a lot of notes and bendy-bendy all over the place, but it sounds empty to me.  That's just my opinion.  For more info on how annoying SRV fans are, click this link.  http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28739


I like Robert Cray, he has a great voice and his playing doesnt annoy me.  Keb Mo as well.  Taj Mahal kicks ass.  BB King is the man.  Buddy Guy has a few really good albums, IMHO his singing is way better than his playing, I dig his late '60s stuff and Sweet Tea, Check out the movie "Festival Express", there is a killer live Buddy Guy performance.  I don't get Clapton, though I like Cream, but his fans confuse me, I just don't hear anything interesting there, and I don't like his voice.  

I guess I should get off my "Anti Modern Blues" soapbox.  I see it as "Blues Based Rock", or "Blues Influenced Rock".  


All that aside.  I'm sure a double-f-hole LS5 with P-90s would accomplish a nice blues tone.  I have a double-f-hole mahogany Thinline routed for p-90s on its way to my house, UPS says it should be here on Friday.  Different from an L5S in shape only.  Once I get it all put together I'll post about its blues-based-rock tones.  However, its getting a Goncalo Alves neck....  Can you play the blues on Goncalo Alves?  And the top is Bubinga, can you play the blues on something as fun to say as "Bubinga"?  Probably not, but I'll try.

The great John Coltrane once said "If it sounds good, it is good".  And he was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

 

[ildar]

The great John Coltrane once said "If it sounds good, it is good".  And he was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

There is no comparison between 'Trane and Clapton (or most anyone else). His passion came through in his playing-not just his pain, but his joy, too-but he didn't dwell on it. Neither did he make his pain yours, but rather used it to draw in the listener, taking the listener on an incredible journey. The catharsis was not just Coltrane's when he played, the catharsis was mutual.
Not to mention that Coltrane's life was FAR more difficult than Clapton's.

 

[vtpcnk]

i'm not sure with this constant cribbing about clapton. simply no guitarist in rock n roll has improvised/set new genres - the way clapton did in his initial years - between yardbirds and derek and the dominoes. and even today very few people can match him in live improvisation on a good day.

and using low quality instruments for blues is also big bs. from the late 60s almost every great blues guitarist has used good quality instruments - from the three kings (bb/freddie/albert) to albert collins, buddy guy, john lee hooker, magic sam, hubert sumlin etc.

 

[vtpcnk]

oops i forgot my personal favorite - the great otis rush. all the claims of a fender jaguar not having enough sustain are put to nought if you hear his album "so many roads" (live in japan). i was listening to it today commuting to work and god ...

 

[dbw]

i'm not sure with this constant cribbing about clapton. simply no guitarist in rock n roll has improvised/set new genres - the way clapton did in his initial years - between yardbirds and derek and the dominoes. and even today very few people can match him in live improvisation on a good day.

and using low quality instruments for blues is also big bs. from the late 60s almost every great blues guitarist has used good quality instruments - from the three kings (bb/freddie/albert) to albert collins, buddy guy, john lee hooker, magic sam, hubert sumlin etc.

Well said, sir!

Al/Jack, about Tears in Heaven... the guy is a musician.  He writes songs.  He is a very popular musician.  Many people buy his songs.  There's no sinister moneygrubbing here.  I don't think he was thinking about money when he wrote the song.

 

[ildar]

Al/Jack, about Tears in Heaven... the guy is a musician.  He writes songs.  He is a very popular musician.  Many people buy his songs.  There's no sinister moneygrubbing here.  I don't think he was thinking about money when he wrote the song.

Agreed. I have no qualm about him writing the song, but obviously it doesn't end there. My objection is recording/producing/releasing/promoting...all of that as one instance, though...it just smacks of smarm.
Hmm...Smacks of Smarm, I kind of like that.

 

[mayfly]

Hmm...Smacks of Smarm, I kind of like that.

Sounds like a band!  Not sure what style - not blues though

 

[Superlizard]

I'm gonna write a song about the dead lizard I saw in a parking lot the other day and make a mint!   :toothy10:

I'll call it, "Lizards In Heaven"...

It'll be funk based with a touch of emo.

 

[hannaugh]

Guys, anyone can feel the blues.  It is universal.  The blues addresses the human condition, not just poor drunk black dudes from back in the day.  Everyone has something crappy in their life that they could sing the blues about, and I think that most blues players from back in the day would be thrilled to see that people continue their tradition even now.  

Also, check out Brother Yusef.  He is an awesome blues player with a really cool voice.  He only plays free street shows, but he has some cds.  

 

[Vol. Knob]

and even today very few people can match him in live improvisation on a good day.

No.  This is complete Hogwash.  Many players can play circles around him.  He's not that great.  If you want improvisation, listen to '70s era Grateful Dead.  Listen to mid '90s Phish.  Listen to  Warren Haynes, Jimmy Herring, Derek Trucks, the guys in MOE, Yngwie flippin Malmsteen, Junior Brown, etc...  Listen to *insert random John Coltrane album here, despite the fact that he's a sax player and not a guitar slinger*.  For crying out loud, put the kool-aid down!!!!!

simply no guitarist in rock n roll has improvised/set new genres - the way clapton did in his initial years - between yardbirds and derek and the dominoes.

Clapton did not set new genres.  Sorry.  This is Complete and Total Hogwash.  Regardless of my dislike for 95% of his music, he was simply one of the players in a very big field that was actively evolving, he was just lucky to be one of the players that has survived this long.  The style would have evolved whether he was there or not.  And SRV would still end up getting on my nerves.

And while the blues might sound fantastic on an Ash bodied L5S with P-90s, Clapton would sound absolutely stale on one.  At least to my ears.  And chicks dig my ears.

 

[NeilStryker]

listen to '70s era Grateful Dead.  Listen to mid '90s Phish. 

:icon_thumright: ccasion14: :cool01:

 

[Superlizard]

and even today very few people can match him in live improvisation on a good day.

No.  This is complete Hogwash.  Many players can play circles around him.  He's not that great.  If you want improvisation, listen to '70s era Grateful Dead.  Listen to mid '90s Phish.  Listen to  Warren Haynes, Jimmy Herring, Derek Trucks, the guys in MOE, Yngwie flippin Malmsteen, Junior Brown, etc...   Listen to *insert random John Coltrane album here, despite the fact that he's a sax player and not a guitar slinger*.  For crying out loud, put the kool-aid down!!!!!

simply no guitarist in rock n roll has improvised/set new genres - the way clapton did in his initial years - between yardbirds and derek and the dominoes.

Clapton did not set new genres.  Sorry.  This is Complete and Total Hogwash.  Regardless of my dislike for 95% of his music, he was simply one of the players in a very big field that was actively evolving, he was just lucky to be one of the players that has survived this long.  The style would have evolved whether he was there or not.  And SRV would still end up getting on my nerves.

And while the blues might sound fantastic on an Ash bodied L5S with P-90s, Clapton would sound absolutely stale on one.  At least to my ears.  And chicks dig my ears.

To get rock history correct - let's not conveniently forget that at one time, people were writing "Clapton is God" everywhere.

He was *the* undisputed rock guitar God at one time, and this happened after he mated a Gibson Les Paul with a Marshall combo amp in the mid '60s.

He did set new precedences... his tone was nasty, snarly and unlike anything anybody else had done before on record.

He also influenced future rock guitar Gods... EVH, for example was a huge fan of his Cream stuff.

So, he was an original rock guitar God and at the top of his peer group at one time.

(To boot, I'm not a big fan of Clapton... really only like a handful of tunes from his Cream days and a couple singles)

 

[stubhead]

My blues are realer than yours.