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I think those are just too many variables to be able to say anything specific. If I had to answer, I'd say the pickups and the chambering make the biggest difference between the two guitars, maybe followed by the maple top. But definitely the pickups first.

Korina + maple top + ebony fb = somewhat brighter than a LP Standard, but pickup choice will still be a bigger factor in defining the sound.
 
as I've said before: its hearsay that korina has more highs (in a les paul!!) than mahogany. NO it won't be too bright. YES it will sound like a les paul, with added complexity in the mids, added 'punch', added grind. its a les paul on the rocks.

yes, the ebony is part of 'the les paul custom' tone.

chambered=more woody tone, more open, solid=more compression, more punch, directer tone.

bareknuckles are nice, though, as I've said before, duncan hybrid pickups (59/custom or fullshred/distortion as the winners) are better. and YES i've tried all bkp's. they're really not that special. as i've said before.

korina makes a nice neck, though I strongly suggest, for the tones you're looking for, to use wenge or rosewood


thats the last I want to discuss about it. I'll be seeing the guitar in the 'just out of the box' and the gallery.
 
Orpheo said:
thats the last I want to discuss about it. I'll be seeing the guitar in the 'just out of the box' and the gallery.

Lol, alright, I know I can be anoying with all my questions, I just wanted to hear more opinion about those wood  from different people but it seems like you're the only one to comment about them, I appreciate your help.
If anybody else want to chime in, don't hesitate.

 
ok, last thing.

not to offend other people, but in all honousty, I don't think that there are that many people who have as much experience with warmoth les pauls, as I do.
 
Hey Orpheo, do you think you could make a list your various LP's with body wood, neck wood, fretboard wood, pickups, and maybe a little description of the sound on each one?  I think your experience could help out a lot of people who are looking to build a Warmoth LP.  I know I'd like to someday... got to finish my strat first.
 
Ok so tonight I went to a guitar shop and I am pretty glad I did because there wasn't a lot of people in the store and they had 2 PRS SE SingleCut guitar, one made with mahogany/maple top and the other made with korina, both had rosewood fingerboard and same electronic.
I played both guitar unplugged and plugged for an hour or so, I also compared them to a Gibson USA Les Paul Traditionnal wich is mahogany/maple top and rosewood fingerboard.

I really paid attention to the unplugged tone but also compared amped clean and distorted, played through an amp similar to mine.

The Gibson was heavier than the Mahogany PRS and the Mahogany PRS was heavier than the Korina PRS, the Korina didn't feel too good for that.
Now for the tone, even unplugged the Gibson was louder with more attack and low mids than the PRS Mahogany, even though it probably has nothing to do with it, it seemed like the weight of that guitar was transating to its tone, which was heavier. The PRS guitars were slimmer and had a 22" scale so that's probably why the Gbson sounded heavier compared to them.

Between the two PRS, mahogany and korina, I could easily identify which was mahogany and which as korina, seriously this was FAR from being subtle, I'm a sound tech so I have good ears but still to me it was almost day and night difference.
The Mahogany PRS had that low mid punch and dryness to it which was also found on the gibson. Those low mids sounded raw, with a distortion that rawness worked well but for the clean it lacked some air and sounded sort of "garage" if you will.
The korina PRS didn't have as much low mid punch  (200-300hz or so) but the lows were there, pretty much the same as mahogany. I'm not sure if I can say that korina had more mids to it, it definitely had less low mids which gave the impression that it had more hi-mids, impression or not, the sound was clearer.
On a clean channel, the korina sounded really open with a very nice balanced tone, not harsh, not muddy and it wasn't dry at all like the mahogany was, it didn't have as much of a footprint as mahogany though.
Distorted, the korina kept the lows, it's weird but with the same settings on the amp, the mahogany sounded like a crunch while the korina sounded like a distortion because the high distorted more and they sounded more consistent, that's hard to describe.

Anyway, so those were my observations, I'm glad I tried those guitars, I can easily imagine how good korina would sound on a Les Paul, I think I'm sold but I still have some questions...
What would be the benifit of a wenge/ebony neck compared the a korina/rosewood neck? Would it bring some low mids back, would it bring some dryness back...? I have no clue, I know it's recommended but I don't know why exactly.
Also, with the korina PRS I tried I didn't feel the need for a maple top at all, the clarity was all there, what would a maple top add to the sound, more deep punch or just more hi-mids "pick attack"?
And finally last but not least, I paid special attention to the neck scale, I'm selling a fender jagstang (to fund that build) which I really like just because it is 24" and I just can't play at my best on it, with the Gibson, I had the same kind of impression, I didn't feel 100% comfortable but I know that shortscale and longscale don't sound the same.
With all those woods combinasion, how would a long scale (25.5") affect the tone compared to a Gibson LP?

Hopefully someone can help me, Orpheo, you really don't have to if you don't feel like it, I understand.
Thanks for the help.
 
fourdogslong said:
Between the two PRS, mahogany and korina, I could easily identify which was mahogany and which as korina, seriously this was FAR from being subtle, I'm a sound tech so I have good ears but still to me it was almost day and night difference.
The Mahogany PRS had that low mid punch and dryness to it which was also found on the gibson. Those low mids sounded raw, with a distortion that rawness worked well but for the clean it lacked some air and sounded sort of "garage" if you will.
The korina PRS didn't have as much low mid punch  (200-300hz or so) but the lows were there, pretty much the same as mahogany.

I just built a w. korina solid body strat and have been playing a w. mahogany solid bodied strat for 20 yrs.
I totally agree with your evaluation of the tone difference when unplugged. The mahogany has more "vibe" in the upper bass / low low mids 200 - 300hz.
The korina is weak in that range.
I can also feel the difference by placing my arm on the body and pulling off a few open strings with my left hand. It's quite noticeable.
 
Steve_Karl said:
fourdogslong said:
Between the two PRS, mahogany and korina, I could easily identify which was mahogany and which as korina, seriously this was FAR from being subtle, I'm a sound tech so I have good ears but still to me it was almost day and night difference.
The Mahogany PRS had that low mid punch and dryness to it which was also found on the gibson. Those low mids sounded raw, with a distortion that rawness worked well but for the clean it lacked some air and sounded sort of "garage" if you will.
The korina PRS didn't have as much low mid punch  (200-300hz or so) but the lows were there, pretty much the same as mahogany.

I just built a w. korina solid body strat and have been playing a w. mahogany solid bodied strat for 20 yrs.
I totally agree with your evaluation of the tone difference when unplugged. The mahogany has more "vibe" in the upper bass / low low mids 200 - 300hz.
The korina is weak in that range.

Yeah it's weak in the upper bass like you say but the air, the sustain and the hi-mids are pretty nice, don't you think?
I just need to find a neck that will fill that low mid weakness just a tad. Maybe korina body with mahogany neck or vice versa? Or maybe that famous wenge neck is what it's all about... all I read is that it's awesome and a good match to korina but I don't know why or how yet, I either need to re-read some answers that were given to me already and/or do some more research.

How do you like your korina strat except for the upper bass?
 
I like the korina a lot ... but there are a few other variables in the difference between the mahogany.
The korina has a Wilk. VS-100 and the mahogany has a hard tail with brass saddles ... and the necks.

I'd love to have the cash to really make a spot on comparison with only the body wood being the difference.

Even so ... my next electric with pups one will be mahogany and probably Goncalo Alves / Ebony or maybe Wenge / Ebony.

I'm ready to do a clone of this idea : http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11042.15
and might still go mahogany on that also. Not sure yet.

Yes. the korina is still nice. The "air" thing is very subtle but yea ... there's something different up there with the korina.
It's slightly more filled in in the upper body ... right at the breast bone.
It might be the neck also. ( Same electronics in both )
The mahogany feels a bit scooped out right there but I like that.

I'm thinking the same way with a neck to fill that range for my next build and leaning towards Goncalo Alves / ebony because of no finish and just seems to be rated slightly higher on the tone-O-meter than mahogany.

The neck on my korina is ' 59 roundback padouk / bloodwood and on my mahogany is standard thin maple / ebony.

I'm also thinking that more neck shaft wood is being more dominant in relationship to the body making the korina strat ( as a whole ) a bit colder than the mahogany strat as a whole.


 
Oh and btw, I'm not after a slash tone, I'm more after that sort of tone (it starts at 1:08) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3AoiVMQqX4
The band is refused, the whole album sounds incredible to my ears, the distorted guitars and huge and the cleans are pretty nice too.
 
short note from my side (will post later a bigger story).

don't forget that the korina PRS has a slimmer body than a warmoth LP with maple top! don't forget that the maple cap adds a lot of lows (yeah really, it does!) and a lot of tightness to your tone. more so than having a thin korina body ;)

a longer scale will give some more 'twang', more bloom, more springyness to your tone.

a korina/rosewood neck will have a lot of lows, lower mids, and might tend to get a bit pushy and mushy. wenge/ebony will give you some tightness, articulation, and the wenge itself has some great, great mids. its got some chunk for chords, but the chords are clear and open at the same time. for your solo's, your tone will have so much livelylness, the notes will rock and flow.

ok, you guys wanted a list of what I have? here goes.

korina/maple top, rosewood neck and board, trem, PATB2 bridge, stagmag neck. tight overall, mids jump out, highs are smooth, like santana. the lows are there, not punchy or pushing.

mahogany/maple top, RW neck, trem, bill lawrence L500 R, L and XL set. tight! crunchy, highs are piercing and biting (80ies style), mids crunch like crazy and are pushed out of the amp. lows are tight, but not emphesised. like a 'supertele'.

mahogany/maple, wenge neck, ebony board. fullshred/distortion neck hybrid in bridge, distortion neck/jb hybrid in neck. howling mids, yet pushed in a pleasant way, singing highs, bit honky and woody. lows are tight and pumping. its very, very slash-like for my taste.

mahogany/maple, padouk/ebony neck. jb/jazz. supertight, crunchy in the bridge. the highs are piercing though a bit rounded (bit smoother than the bill lawrences). the jazz is a bit hollow and boxy and woody. the mids are pushing and crunchy and tight. the lows are tight but not really present.

mahogany/maple, zebrano/ebony, distortion bridge, jazz neck. bit warmer than above, smoother, not as gritty. lots of power, cleans up nicely. mids are less pushy, highs are less piercing, more lows, overall just as tight.

mahogany/maple, cocobolo/braz. RW, 59/custom hybrids. classic rock tone, like zz top. bit pushy, but not too much. the mids are a bit crunchy, but not really that much, the highs are friendly, the lows are slightly flabby, as it should be in 'vintage toned' instruments. it gets tighter with the more gain you use, ofcourse. the highs are piercing and snappy, almost twangy.

walnut/koa, ziricote neck, ebony board, jb/jazz HYBRID pickups, with extra coil for the bridge pickup, with alnico8 bar magnets. like a kick in the stomach. it goes and goes and goes, no stopping it. every note oozes 'tone', it never stops. the lows are supertight and punchy, the mids are crunchy if I want them to, or smooth if I want them to (depending on my picking, on this guitar its more extreme than on the guitars listed above). the highs are piercing, the lows are tight and absolutely present. the overall tone is snappy, agressive, midheavy.

walnut/walnut, bubinga/ebony. fullshred/distortion hybrid set, alnico8 in neck, thick ceramic in bridge. this guitar feels and sounds like an 80ies superstrat. uppermids are strongly represented, the lows are tight but only present because there's so much wood, the highs are piercing and biting. tonecontrols are very much needed. coiltap doesn't sound that great, parallel settings are better, cause split will sound a bit thin, where parallel gives you a bit more power and roundness. great for early aerosmith-stuff!

mahogany/koa, purpleheart/ebony, fullshred/distortion hybrid, alnico5 in neck, thick ceramic in bridge. the total opposite of the walnut/walnut, every way; warm body vs bright body. bright neck vs warm neck. the lows are so strongly represented, the emphasize is on the lower mids. the highs are smooth and sweet, the mids and upper mids are like a chainsaw (best way to describe it I think). they're there, but not strong, but strong enough to cut through. this is my 'winger' (reb beech) guitar!

purpleheart/rosewood, canary/ebony, 1 piece top, 2 piece backcustom made set (with some secrets of my own, which I'm not willing to share). sweet tones, with great balance. this guitar has perhaps the best balance of mid high and low of any guitar I have. depending on picking you can boost the EQ on the place of your choosing. its a great slate for your tone, you can do whatever you want with it, but the strongest, easiest produced eq-band is in the uppermids.

padouk/wenge (both 1 piece!)  padouk/ebony, dean baker act bridge, wizard novatron mid, dean hands without shadows (michaelangelo batio) neck. is the sibling of the one above. same deal. but here the attention goes to the LOWER mids! the highs are a bit tighter, the lows are more pronounced, the mids and upper mids are crunchier, where its sibling has a sweeter, softer mid and uppermid range.

mahogany/maple (1 piece, both), purpleheart neck, schenker set. difficult guitar. Don't like it, yet, because its too piercing, too bright, not enough lows, not enough power, not enough lower mids, too much brightness and too much crunch. Most likely due to the brass nut! the nut will be changed for bone. Having 011 strings helps a lot, though.

mahogany/maple (1 piece, both), wenge neck, ebony board, dean mountain of tone bridge, dean dimetime neck. classic rock 'n roll, with an edge. its got some kind of honky-ness to the mids, crunchy bite to the upper mids, great piercing highs, but not cutting it too much. the lows are tight and powerfull, but not overwhelming. The nut here is again its bottleneck. Will be changed for bone to smooth out the tones in general.





the necks which are put in bold are the fatter necks (all 1 inch, some 1 11/16'' nuts, some 1 3/4''). the others are all standard thin.

thats what I have now. I have had more, but they're sold. I also had more korina, but, sold ;) I only have this for now. I'm not really satisfied with the tones of the 1 piece flamed maple and the 1 piece quilt maple topped guitars, but thats most likely due to the nut, as I've said earlier. I have to say, though, that the wenge neck (which is on the quilt top) used to be on the flame top, and at that time, the guitar had a great, awesome, kickass tone (with other pickups, too), but the color demanded a purple neck ;) so the purpleheart neck went on. Purpleheart is so damn bright... thats what convinced me that necks are maybe more important than bodies. you can see it in the descriptions. thick necks equal thick(er) tones than thinner necks. thinner necks have more crunch, more bit, more attack.
 
Nice collection and a good research lab also ! That's very interesting about the maple tops adding lows and tightness.

Are all of your bodies, the ones with the maple tops, chambered or solid?

I'd like to hear a comparison of wenge / ebony vs goncalo alves / ebony (necks) ... even if it's just your imagination.

Also, what woods would you use in a build like this if you were looking for a very full range balanced tone?
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11042.15

Thanks for sharing all the info.
 
Orpheo said:
short note from my side (will post later a bigger story).

don't forget that the korina PRS has a slimmer body than a warmoth LP with maple top! don't forget that the maple cap adds a lot of lows (yeah really, it does!) and a lot of tightness to your tone. more so than having a thin korina body ;)

a longer scale will give some more 'twang', more bloom, more springyness to your tone.

a korina/rosewood neck will have a lot of lows, lower mids, and might tend to get a bit pushy and mushy. wenge/ebony will give you some tightness, articulation, and the wenge itself has some great, great mids. its got some chunk for chords, but the chords are clear and open at the same time. for your solo's, your tone will have so much livelylness, the notes will rock and flow.

I didn't know that a maple top adds lows to the tone, I thought they were used to add brightness, when you say it adds tightness, do you think it's somewhat similar to the "dry" sound of mahogany that I was refering to?
I really liked the korina resonance compared to the dry sound, I just wish it had a bit more upper bass.

With that said, are the mids of the wenge/ebony neck mostly in the low or high range? And also why is it always paired with an ebony fingerboard?
Thanks for those great info!
 
only the one with trem and mahogany back is chambered, at least, of that one I'm certain. I thought the rest are solid, albeit some of them SUPERLIGHT.


maple has the strangest of properties. for a neck, it adds brightness. for a top, it adds chime, tightness. focus and more and tighter lows. I have used a full maple strat sometime ago, and that guitar had huge lows. more than you'd expect of any guitar.

you can't get goncalo alves for an angled neck for a les paul, but goncalo alves will giv eyou more smoothness, more mellowness, sweeter, than wenge.

the wenge/ebony neck with a THIN back will have the mids in the middle and upper range. for the thick neck, its more in ALL the mids.

why its paired with ebony? in my case, cause I like ebony. it radiates luxuriousness! and it feels great.
 
Do you think a maple top on the korina PRS I tried would have make it sound closer to the mahogany model in the lows?

Also, did anybody ever tried a mahogany with maple top body with a korina neck?
 
fourdogslong said:
Do you think a maple top on the korina PRS I tried would have make it sound closer to the mahogany model in the lows?

Also, did anybody ever tried a mahogany with maple top body with a korina neck?

yes, I think that will give you thicker, tighter lows :)

and, yeah, its me again. I tried it. its so similar to mahogany! I changed the necks, it had a mahogany neck and I swapped it for a korina neck, and the difference was very, very, very minimal. but why korina, which needs a finish, if wenge, rosewood, bubinga, canary, purpleheart and padouk can be chosen, which don't need a finish!
 
I have been following this thread very closely and all the info is valid and accurate.  Orpheo is a wealth of knowledge!! However final tone of the finished product is SO dependent and too many variables it is mind numbing and I hate for you to become too fixated on it. 

All these items may/can (and have been posted) to effect tone:

Core wood, solid/chambered, lam top, neck wood, fingerboard, neck joint (bolt, glued, strait thru), hardware, string type, frets (nickel/SS), finish (oil/nitro/poly), pickups, quality of wiring. Let us not forget the amp!!!  Tone worms anyone? :laughing3:

I think you have a great idea of the tone you want and a good idea of what types of wood can give you that tone.  Most of the changes you are pointing out have very minor differences.  I would base you final decision on what type of wood you want to see and/or feel if you go with an unfinished neck.  To me the choice between mahogany and black Korina was easy once a saw what the Korina looked like! :headbang:

Bottom line is you are on a path to a great sounding guitar but you will never be able to predict the final sound until it is all screwed together.  Case in point...I built a solid MAPLE tele and a maple neck and rosewood fingerboard.  My thought were is was going to be a twang monster...lots of bright sounding tone...NOPE.  My pickup choice (SD Humbucker)  turned it into a warm sounding blues machine!!

If you think this is hard...wait until you start choosing pickups!!!

Good luck and I look forward to seeing this complete.
 
Orpheo said:
fourdogslong said:
Do you think a maple top on the korina PRS I tried would have make it sound closer to the mahogany model in the lows?

Also, did anybody ever tried a mahogany with maple top body with a korina neck?

yes, I think that will give you thicker, tighter lows :)

and, yeah, its me again. I tried it. its so similar to mahogany! I changed the necks, it had a mahogany neck and I swapped it for a korina neck, and the difference was very, very, very minimal. but why korina, which needs a finish, if wenge, rosewood, bubinga, canary, purpleheart and padouk can be chosen, which don't need a finish!

The only reason why I'd use a mahogany or korina neck is to have it painted all black so my guitar would be a gold top darkback, I like that look.
Concerning korina, do you think it's worth it to wait until warmoth get some to build my body with it over mahogany, especially if I have to cover it with maple anyway?
 
DMRACO said:
I have been following this thread very closely and all the info is valid and accurate.  Orpheo is a wealth of knowledge!! However final tone of the finished product is SO dependent and too many variables it is mind numbing and I hate for you to become too fixated on it. 

All these items may/can (and have been posted) to effect tone:

Core wood, solid/chambered, lam top, neck wood, fingerboard, neck joint (bolt, glued, strait thru), hardware, string type, frets (nickel/SS), finish (oil/nitro/poly), pickups, quality of wiring. Let us not forget the amp!!!  Tone worms anyone? :laughing3:

I think you have a great idea of the tone you want and a good idea of what types of wood can give you that tone.  Most of the changes you are pointing out have very minor differences.  I would base you final decision on what type of wood you want to see and/or feel if you go with an unfinished neck.  To me the choice between mahogany and black Korina was easy once a saw what the Korina looked like! :headbang:

Bottom line is you are on a path to a great sounding guitar but you will never be able to predict the final sound until it is all screwed together.  Case in point...I built a solid MAPLE tele and a maple neck and rosewood fingerboard.  My thought were is was going to be a twang monster...lots of bright sounding tone...NOPE.  My pickup choice (SD Humbucker)  turned it into a warm sounding blues machine!!

If you think this is hard...wait until you start choosing pickups!!!

Good luck and I look forward to seeing this complete.

Honestly, the more options I see, the more confused I am lol

I just need to find the right balance between tone, weight/comfort and finish. This seems pretty simple but I realize that this can get complicated.
I like the look of a tobacco or black/brown/yellow burst over korina, but if I want all the balls of an LP I neep a maple top.
I like the look of a gold top with darkback but if I do it I'd have to get a finished neck to really fit well with the body.
I like tthe tone of a 24 3/4" scale but I prefer to play on a 25 1/2" scale, so in an ideal world, my wood choices would "compensate" for that.
And, on top of that, I like the idea to feel a raw neck in my hands even though I'm not sure about its look...

I don't even want to think about pickups for now, I know they are hard to choose, I upgraded pickups in the past in some of my guitars and it wasn't easy to find the perfect match.
Anyway, I'm still thinking pretty hard about this project and just to make the choice even harder I found a Gibson LP Custom for 1800$ CAD locally which would be an easier choice but possibly not as good as a custom built.
Any thoughts?



 
fourdogslong said:
Any thoughts?

Welcome to Warmoth! :toothy12:

But seriously, just go with your gut. While it's good to be an informed customer (and when is it ever not?), it's too easy to obsess over every little detail: sit down in a quiet place with a quiet head and picture what kind of guitar you would really like to play. Then go ahead and get that guitar!
 
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