Looking for advice on a Rack Setup

[Re-Pete]

I'd just like to thank you guys for this thread. I've been on the edge of deviating from my "tubes and stomps" and moving to a digital rig as a more practical approach to playing/writing/recording in a house with, you know, other people. The sounds of children playing is a wonderful thing of course, but not so much when you're trying to mic an amp... This thread has helped me to start looking into it.

Verne, I ended up going with Kemper in this issue. Mine was about volume control & amp/tone selection. I have no issues with AxeFX, either Kemper or AxeFx - you won't go wrong with good amp modelling. Each work a  little different to each other, but in the end, the tone replication is quite awesome in either rig. Go through tutorials and get an understanding how they work & see if one is a more favourite workflow for you.

I'm trying to do home recording. I have a taste for a variety of amps. Need something like these modellers. In the past I have found software amp sims to be CPU hungry and I'm just not convinced it was the way to go.

Now: the Kemper. For recording you can set up the outputs to be a variety of output sections. Left or Right could be effects only while the centre S/PDIF could carry the main rig sound & a DI dry guitar for reamping purposes.  If your mixer or AD/DA interface can handle the work it's a big rig. Or, if you use external FX (your favourite pedals) you can set them up in a loop pre or post and in either mono or stereo. The hardest thing, though, is making up your mind as to how you want to work with it.

I'm sure the AxeFX has similar flexibility & probably the Helix system too. These systems have really burst forward in the last few years and worth checking out. As a  musician you want to get a good palette of sounds to match what you play, especially if you work live. These systems can go direct to PA board and save a lot of bother with sound stage interference and poor live engineering/poor mic placement or mic selection.

I have been watching on YT a lot of Festival footage from the last couple of years with bands all running around the circuit and billed in slots for a day. Not everyone is Metallica and they have to economise where they can for air luggage costs and just general reliability issues with tube amps. All these systems tend to travel well and are much lighter than a tube amp = less $ to tour with. Also they can take their studio presets/profiles on the road.

 

[Timmsie95]

^ that's is a very good point. And on the topic of live, I'm thinking about selling my G90 wireless and getting a G75, because i can use a normal 1/4 cable with it, and they seem more reliable from what I've read. My only gripe is that it isn't rack mountable because the antennas are internal, so it would have to sit on top of my rack. I can use a bit of Velcro so it stays put, but it's another thing to set up, and more cables going out of the track which I'm not ecstatic about. Has anyone used one?

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Great info there Re-Pete, thanks for all of that! The ability to incorporate physical effects units is something I'm interested in, I have a few that I'm pretty partial to.

 

[stratamania]

Interesting Metallica was mentioned, as they are using the Axe FX.

http://g66.eu/articles/890-metallica-backstage

 

[Re-Pete]

Interesting Metallica was mentioned, as they are using the Axe FX.

http://g66.eu/articles/890-metallica-backstage

Wow, yeah? Gee that's really gunna upset Randall who have lumped $$ into Kirk. Just shows how FAR these systems have come that top acts want to use them too.

 

[Re-Pete]

Great info there Re-Pete, thanks for all of that! The ability to incorporate physical effects units is something I'm interested in, I have a few that I'm pretty partial to.

On the Kemper, just be aware that you sacrifice one send & two returns (if bringing FX back into rig in stereo).

You can still have the wide rig in stereo, but I think on the way I have it set up, I lose a DI dry guitar.

In the end there's only so many input & output sockets built into the system and the programming.

The tutorial shows you how to program an effects loop in the front part of the 'amp' rig for a distortion/overdrive/boost pedal set up, OR, you can use  the loop for modulation effects in the post preamp/pre power stage area. BUT you can't do both at once.

To work around that, you could run the distortion pedal with the guitar input signal chain and use any modulation external effect in the effects loop.

 

[rapfohl09]

Hey guys, bringing this back from the dead since its my own thread.

I am still angsting over this! Part of me feels like I just need to bite the bullet and get the Axe-FX, but I have read so many good things about the Helix and the sounds I have heard on YouTube have been great! I know a few of you guys have recently picked up the Helix, how are you liking (loving?) it?

My other question is floor unit vs. rack mounted w/ controller. I am not at all a touring musicians, I don't even play out (which I REALLY hope to change soon) so a floor unit would be fine, but I just like rack mounted stuff better. In reality, I probably don't even need a floor controller. Now I know there is a big difference between the AX8 and the Axe-FX, but as far as I can tell the Helix Rack vs. Floor are the same, so that makes that decision harder.

Thoughts?

 

[Cagey]

Just in general terms, I've always like the rack solution myself. It just seems to be able to accomodate a lotta different scenarios as things evolve. However, these days even with a rack setup, you still end up consuming a good-sized chunk of floor real estate with MIDI switchers/controllers, CC pedals, etc. on a pedalboard, so you're not really cleaning things up as much as theory would suggest. If you go with one of the all-in-one floor devices like a Helix, AX8, etc., then of course you probably still have a pedalboard, but that's all you have. It's the effects/amps/controllers all in one tidy pile.

I have an AxeFx in a rack along with a G90 wireless and a power thingy, but then I've got a pedalboard that's 30" wide that has to come along with it, then powered speakers, then my guitar. So, there's 4-5 heavy items not counting stands and a small gig bag of support crap like strings, cords, laptop, tools, duct tape, etc..

As for choosing between a Helix or a Fractal device, then you have to decide how accurate you wanna be. They both sound good for live work, but certainly the Fractal unit is closer to reality by a good measure. If I were starting over, I'd be buying Fractal's new AX8. It's essentially everything the AxeFx II is, less some seldom-used features that are usually only appealing to studios. The only argument I'm aware of in favor of the Helix is it's supposed to be easier to program. I don't know if that's actually true or if people are just predisposed toward it because it's prettier, but not having used them both I can't speak to ease of use. Price-wise, the AX8 is actually $100 less than the Helix, so basically a wash but if money's an issue there's that.

Nice thing is, though, either way you go you can just show up, plop the unit on the floor, plug it into the PA or your powered speaker (or both), plug in your guitar and you're ready to go.

 

[mayfly]

Hey - I'm considering selling my AxeFX Ultra.  I've got the groovy pedalboard for it and a custom made road case.  If you want a rack solution, I could probably make a deal that would be more acceptable than a new unit.

Having said that, the reason why I'm selling it is because I've got a new AX8   

 

[rapfohl09]

I am really tempted by the AX8. Part of me wants to just get the FX so I can know I have the best and industry standard and not have to worry about having buyers remorse. But the AX8 seems to be about 90% of the FX without things like dual amp functions and stuff. I would never know the difference. Honestly I wish I had bought one the last time they were in stock.

 

[Cagey]

At some point, I'm probably going to move to the AX8 myself. The AxeFx II and associated hardware is just so much overkill for what I do that it doesn't make sense. Even if I did start playing out again, the AX8 would still do 5,729% more than I need. I bought into all this stuff as if I were a professional musician making a living at it who needed every base covered well into the future, while the naked reality is much different and, when I'm honest with myself, always will be.

All that said, I still want the fidelity, reliability, predictability and functionality of professional gear. I don't have the time or patience for  "making do" with a maintenance-intensive old beer- and cigarette-stained Fender combo amp and a handful of twitchy stomp boxes tied together in some Gordian knot of threadbare cords. But, fortunately for us, we don't have to spend $20K to get there. An AX8 with a good guitar and monitor would let you stand on any size stage with the best of them. Let the sound reinforcement and studio guys figure out how to make you big enough to feed crowds of thousands if it comes to that.

 

[rgand]

I don't have the time or patience for  "making do" with a maintenance-intensive old beer- and cigarette-stained Fender combo amp and a handful of twitchy stomp boxes tied together in some Gordian knot of threadbare cords.

You mean... I should upgrade?

 

[Cagey]

Whatever's best for you  :icon_biggrin:

 

[bagman67]

Funny, I'm running a fifteen foot cord straight into a Fender Mustang III and that's the whole rig right now.  Except when I plug the same fifteen foot cord into a Vox AC4TV.  I feel pretty good about the current lack of complexity in my guitar-playing life.

 

[Cagey]

There's a lot to be said for that. When you have a rig with 8,391 variables, you always wonder if you're doing things right. Plus, it takes a lotta time to do anything - right, wrong or indifferent.

 

[rgand]

Whatever's best for you  :icon_biggrin:

Well put. :icon_thumright: :icon_biggrin:

I feel pretty good about the current lack of complexity in my guitar-playing life.

In actuality, I'm using a Fender Champion 100 right now. I can totally identify with you in that.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

I'm late to the party, but I just bought one of these:

https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-rack/

I don't have it in hand yet, it was a pre-order.  So I'll happily be the guinea pig for guys on the forum here who are interested.  I wouldn't have made the leap if I didn't get the chance to try out the software they have, This thing is actually just a hardware extention of the amp modelling plugin they developed, which is very good.  It even does amp-match like the Axe FX, though it doesn't "profile" the way a kemper does.  You can load impluse responses for speaker cabinets into it though.  Extremely versatile with an editor that kills all the other products, something I know that the AxeFX and Kemper guys have been screaming about getting for years, although I understand the Helix has a fantastic computer editor from what I've heard, unless I heard wrong.

Playing it on my computer through my KRK's has been a treat, and once my fEARful cab is done, I think it'll be monstrous.

It's also less than half the price of an axeFX or a Kemper, and that includes the 600W class D amp.  However, it doesn't do effects, just amps. And it only has a single speaker output and a mono FX send/return.  These are the only things I'm annoyed about. But the price was right.

I amp matched a Carvin V3M through the Carvin 2x12 the other day with my friend, and when I played it back it felt pretty alive, like a real tube amp.  I was happy.

 

[Timmsie95]

I'm late to the party, but I just bought one of these:

https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-rack/

I don't have it in hand yet, it was a pre-order.  So I'll happily be the guinea pig for guys on the forum here who are interested.  I wouldn't have made the leap if I didn't get the chance to try out the software they have, This thing is actually just a hardware extention of the amp modelling plugin they developed, which is very good.  It even does amp-match like the Axe FX, though it doesn't "profile" the way a kemper does.  You can load impluse responses for speaker cabinets into it though.  Extremely versatile with an editor that kills all the other products, something I know that the AxeFX and Kemper guys have been screaming about getting for years, although I understand the Helix has a fantastic computer editor from what I've heard, unless I heard wrong.

Playing it on my computer through my KRK's has been a treat, and once my fEARful cab is done, I think it'll be monstrous.

It's also less than half the price of an axeFX or a Kemper, and that includes the 600W class D amp.  However, it doesn't do effects, just amps. And it only has a single speaker output and a mono FX send/return.  These are the only things I'm annoyed about. But the price was right.

I amp matched a Carvin V3M through the Carvin 2x12 the other day with my friend, and when I played it back it felt pretty alive, like a real tube amp.  I was happy.

I have seen and heard great things about the Bias Head. Fluff, on YouTube, is a part of Positive Grid, and he gave sneak peeks of it. It is amazing, for the price. There are also tons of artist patches on the cloud, that are pretty nice.

And yes, the computer editor for the Helix is great. It is extremely simple to do anything that you can do on the unit.

 

[rapfohl09]

I have been looking into the Bias head too! I have been telling myself to buy the software for so long, just haven't yet. I really should do that first, since I play mostly at home in front of my computer anyway.

 

[mayfly]

Just adding some more information to the fire,

The AxeFX user interface is much improved.  Both the virtual and the real knobs.  I don't think this is a stumbling block to using the product anymore.

Also - the reason why the older versions were a bit of a pain to set up was that the units allowed you to tweak ANY parameter of the modeled tube amp.  And when I say any parameter, I mean any parameter.  Want to change the capacitors in the tone stack?  go ahead.  Want to change the bias point of your cathode bias amp stage?  sure.  Want to change the type of master volume to be a post phase splitter type?  No problem.  Same for all the effects.

All this made the originals very powerful and very good sounding.  But there was a lot to learn, which some folks found hard.  But if you want control over every parameter of your sound, AxeFX was, and I suspect still is, the king.