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Locking Tuners - all pretty much the same?

joelavely

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I'm reading reviews on Schallers, Sperzels, HipShot locking tuners - from what I can tell, pretty much all of them have folks that 90% love them and 10% hate them.  So, my simple brain says that I should get whichever is cheaper or that I prefer aesthetically and call it a day.

Anyone have different thoughts?  Would love to hear some reviews on one brand versus another, or perhaps am I missing a big name that I should consider?

Thanks,

Joe Lavely
 
You're instincts are right, go with what looks aesthetically best.  Which looks best to you, I'm curious.  I like the planet waves and hip shots.  They both have a high turn ratio. The pws automatically cut your string.  The hipshots come in staggered sets with an ump plate so no holes, and the open backs look cool.  Some here have had bad luck with the pws.  Me only good luck.
Both companies are in New York State, so I could drive to the corporate headquarters to return them if I ever had a problem ... Where do you live?
 
If the guitar you're installing them on has a tremolo bridge and an inline headstock (e.g a Strat or Tele), I'd consider tuners w/ staggered height string posts to reduce/eliminate the need for a string tree.
 
The three you mention are the big players in that field, and all are good. They all operate pretty much the same way - a pin through the center of the shaft is tightened via a rear-access knob against the string, which locks it in place so you only need about a half a wrap to bring the string to tune. Works like a charm, and once you get used to them you'll wonder why nobody thought of it 50 years ago.

I'm not as familiar with the Hipshots as I am with the Sperzels and Schallers. The Sperzels have been around since forever, and may be the first of their kind. I've used a lot of them, but have since changed to Schallers because the knurled knob on the back is somewhat thicker than it is on the Sperzels, so it's easier to tighten/loosen. Get a better grip on it. Also, most Sperzels are a matte/satin finish while most Schallers are polished. That's just aesthetics, but sometimes it matters. The Hipshots have an alignment flange available that makes installation a little more fool-proof. That's usually not a big issue, but the Sperzels have a blind alignment pin while the Schallers use a screw flange for anti-rotation. That blind alignment pin drives some folks nuts, since you can't see what's going on until it's too late. If you aren't careful about drilling the holes for them, your tuners can end up all over the place.

They're all good, but if forced to choose, I'll go with the Schallers.
 
Another option is Grover, also doing the pin-through-the-spindle-with-knob-on-the-back-of-the-machine thing to lock the strings in place.  They are a little bulkier than the Hipshots, but I think they work just fine.  They're a little more old-school looking, if that's important to you.  As you can see here, they use the screw flange arrangement, rather than the blind pin.  The knobs are somewhat bigger than the Planet Waves tuners, which I also like, but Cagey has found them troublesome and does not trust the self-trimming mechanism for the strings.  The Planet Waves tuners have the disadvantage of having black oxide-coated spindle and knob, plus whatever color the case for the works is.  This is totally acceptable for some purposes, but some folks want all-chrome or all-gold, rather than black accents. 

As far as staggered posts go, I reckon they'll help give the treble strings a more acute break angle over the nut, but if you have a well-cut nut or an LSR roller nut, you shouldn't need a string-tree anyway.


6614763005_e763178252_b.jpg




 
I tried saving a few bucks by going with Planet Waves locking tuners on a soloist, won't be doing that again.  Strings keep breaking at the machine head, don't know why.  Quick internet search shows similar issues for  other people.  For a budget setup, I do like the GFS locking tuners.  I have them on a couple guitars and they feel solid, hopefully they'll stay that way and won't tarnish too fast.  I also have a set of Wilkinson EZ-Locks, they are pretty nifty, but only a couple bucks cheaper than the GFS.  Just remember, if you buy cheap tuners you will get cheap fasteners.  Be sure to lubricate the screws
 
I forgot about the Grovers. I have a set of those on my Gibson Melody Maker, and they work pretty well. I wouldn't replace them if I ended up with a neck that had them on it.

The Planet Waves parts have never turned me on. They work ok as lockers, but that whole auto-cut-off thing is a non-starter for me. In order for that to be a Good Thing, they'd have to cost a lot more than they do because the posts and dies would have to be made of tool steel and machined a lot closer than they are, and I know they're not. Not at that price. So, I call shenanigans.
 
My preference for locking tuners are for Hipshots or Schallers. I have both.

I like the aesthetic of the open gear locking version of the Hipshots, and as Rick mentioned there are mounting plates you can get for them called UMPs so if you don't want to use alignment screws you don't need to.  I also like the staggered heights which with hipshot there are three different heights so the stagger is gradual. The gear ratio is also high or low depending on how you look at it contributing to tuning accuracy.

Schallers also are good as are schaller manufactured Fender, but not all Fender are manufactured now by Schaller.

Gotoh also may make some Locking tuners that will be good at the higher end of their range but I haven't had experience with them. I have one guitar a Jem with non  locking Gotohs and they have a good feel to them.

I personally would not go necessarily for the cheapest as such, the better ones will be in a similar price range and sometimes you can get better deals on them from one place versus another. So I would pick the ones I want and then look at price.

Definitely steer away from budget knock off cheapo tuners for good results.
 
I have the planet waves locking auto trim tuners on 3 of my guitars, I love them, no problems they work as advertised.
I understand cageys fears, but when they stop auto trimming the strings, I'm sure they will still lock/clamp the string just fine.
 
I've got the Sperzels on everything and they're great. Drilling the hole is no biggy, the package comes with a drill guide (I only discovered this on about my fourth set).

I do marginally prefer the Sperzels because of the nicer grip on the, er, turny bit on the back, but they're more expensive.

The satin/shiny thing isn't really an issue - Schaller do satin and shiny and inbetweeny and all sorts of colours:

17___GRUPPE04_002.jpg


and they do ones with a hidden locating pin instead of the screw, too:

7___M6_2000_GRUPPE.jpg


(they do them in all the same colours, they're just not all shown in that image).

Sperzel do all sorts of colours as well as satin and shiny versions of the usual chrome, black and gold:

colors_400.jpg


Scroll down to the bottom of this page to see lots of different combinations and colours that are available.

Both Schaller and Sperzel will build a set of tuners to order, so you could have satin chrome tuners with shiny gold string pegs, change the shape of the tuning keys, or whatever. Depends how much you want to spend as I've no doubt that gets expensive.
 
The only thing I don't like about the Sperzels is sometimes the little locating pin comes adrift, especially if you need to remove the tuners, and stay in the neck. This can make it a little awkward when refitting and they are difficult to relocate back in the tuner.
 
joelavely said:
So, my simple brain says that I should get whichever is cheaper or that I prefer aesthetically and call it a day.

Apart from the issues about staggered height and ability to cut strings - I agree.
 
Next questions becomes pricing...looking around, I can get the Hipshot locking tuners for $52 NEW on Ebay (sporthitech is the seller - reputable from other posts here), while even USED Schallers & Sperzels seem to sell for $40+.  Am I missing a source for less expensive NEW Schallers or Sperzels?  If not, seems safer/cheaper to go with the NEW Hipshots for $52/set?

Joe Lavely
 
I think Sporthitech offer other tuners also. But they are a reliable supplier and despatch in good time frames from my experience.  I can get Hipshots in the UK, but those guys have a good range which is why I use them. They also have a website.
 
I have both Sperzels and Schallers and prefer the Schallers. As was said above, if you have a Strat or Tele headstock, make sure you get the staggered posts. Non-staggered posts will not have the correct breakover angle over the nut and will leave you with tuning issues on the top two strings.

Interestingly, Sperzels have three heights in their staggered set where the Schallers only have two heights. It doesn't make a difference really since the breakover angle is good enough to hold the strings in place across the nut with either set.

The rotation ratio is less with the Sperzels so it takes more turns to get the string to pitch and the action seems a bit stiffer on the Sperzels, where the Schallers are smoother, but easier to go past pitch with. Both hold tune well once setup though so it's really a matter of aesthetics. You may like the bigger knob on the back of the Schaller, you may like the stiffer action of the Sperzel. Both look good on a Strat headstock.

stratamania said:
I personally would not go necessarily for the cheapest as such, the better ones will be in a similar price range and sometimes you can get better deals on them from one place versus another. So I would pick the ones I want and then look at price.

Definitely steer away from budget knock off cheapo tuners for good results.

This is a really important point. I worked on a friend's LP that had knockoff Schallers and they were pretty bad. True, they locked the string in place, but anytime a string was bent, the tuner would slip forward and pull the string sharp. We wound up replacing the knockoff Schallers with a set of genuine Sperzels and solved the problem.
 
I have the Hipshots in one guitar and GFS locking tuners on my tele and both work just fine. Neither of then have a trem on them so they don't go through all kinds of tuning changes. I've had Sperzels on an old start with a whammy and they were fine. Got the Hipshots mainly for looks.
 
Are those Grovers a direct replacement for the regular non-locking set?  I have a guitar with regular Grovers and I'd like to install locking but don't wanna drill any holes.
 
Tough to say. The ones I put on my Melody Maker required new anti-rotation screw holes as it originally came with beer can tuners from Kluson. Not pretty, but the Grovers at least work, which is more than you can say for Klusons. On my Agile 3200, the locking Grovers were a drop-in replacement for the non-lockers. Unfortunately, I don't know model numbers, names or anything, so I can't say what'll work and what won't.
 
The Grovers are a direct replacement for the Gotoh machines, i.e., the 10 mm (13/32") ream.  The Warmoth site shows a stepped ream, but a uniform 10mm diameter will suffice.
 
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