Leaky backflow valve: Fender is making Warmoths!

[stubhead]

I know that Warmoth has a license from Fender to make their guitars, but it appears as though Fender has gotten a license from Warmoth?!?

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Fender_Introduces_Select_Series_Guitars_and_Basses.aspx

Fender's calling it their "Select Series", because they have a "bi-flex" trussrod, compound-radius neck, and eyeball-stim like a Strat with

a stunning Dark Cherry Burst gloss-lacquer finish and natural binding on a sleek flame maple-top body.

A Telecaster with

a stunning Violin Burst gloss-lacquer finish and natural binding on a resonant honeycomb-chambered ash body with a solid flame maple top

Hmmm. Of course this is just the "new top-of-the-production-line best", not the Custom Shop, although surely there will now be SELECT Custom Shop models and with their new Blacktop, Modern Player, and Pawnshop series this means there are 2,377 varieties of Fender Stratocasters! So would you goddam kids finally stop buying anything else.... :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

This would explain the wicked new CNC machine that's clearly able to carve up several pieces at once to increase production and lower costs, and the opening of a second production facility. How much would you like to bet Fender's shop(s) has/have union employees? Muahahaha! Dingbats. There's nothing quite so stupid as pricing yourself out of a job. "I demand eleventy-bajillion dollars in wages and benefits per hour, or I'm outa here!" Ummm... Ok. Buh-bye.

 

[Nando Vallart]

Well. actually I wont feel bad for any try to make nice guitars, from any builder

 

[Strat Avenger]

Fender's had the Bi-Flex truss rod since the mid '80s.
They only recently began offering compound radius fretboards, but I think they're 12"-14", aren't they?

 

[Updown]

Can't see Warmoth stated anywhere ....

They only recently began offering compound radius fretboards, but I think they're 12"-14", aren't they?

NOPE ..... 9.5" - 14"

:icon_scratch: Ummm ... they do seem costly, compared to Warmoths

 

[noname]

IMO this is a a try to position themselves in the price area of Suhr and similar companies. At least that what I expect the select ones to cost here in EU (1700 to 2000+ euros).

I believe this is not a bad move, plenty of folks out there not aware of W or boutique builders.

Still, for me, I am happy with the W and if I want to spend 2000 or more I would go to Suhr.

 

[bagman67]

"Select instruments for select individuals."  Leaving aside the odiousness of calling people "individuals," I also find the "select" part obnoxious.  Yay - I have money to spend on fancy toys, so I must be superior to folks who can only afford to by Squiers off-the-rack.


Gimme a break.

 

[stubhead]

If 25 years ago you had told me that people would pay $6,268 for a Fender-copy guitar ($350-X for rosewood fingerboard) I would have bailed out on the restaurant business INSTANTLY and taken that job working on guitars in Austin....  :sad1:

http://www.detempleguitars.com/temp/CATALOG_ITEMS/DeTemple_56.php

One thing you just can't predict around is the insanity and gullibility of the human species, we'll outdo every possible prediction. Now Fender is essentially copying the "improved" Fender copies made by half-a-million folks, in the same vein as Gibson copying Slash's not-Gibson Les Paul. But - I thought only old wood made good guitars, and only guitars that have been played for decades had vibrated enough that their resonant gooshiness is maxed-out? They already make a little vibrator that fits on guitar strings - the "ToneRite":

http://tonerite.com/guitar/vmchk

but I'm planning to invent a "tree-whomper" to season entire logs of lumber at a time. It'll be the size of a house, and you just stick the tree in one end and it WHOMPS it up and down for a month or two. arty07:

 

[Wyliee]

I'm doing my best to keep my mouth shut.....  'select' reminds me of Safeway Select... their house brand..... :doh:

 

[Jusatele]

that is funny Wylie

but look at it this way guys fender is putting out 8000 guitars a month between MIM and USA models, with no premium finishes in that group, and the custom shop stuff starts at 3 grand or better, them being able to produce a few more guitars in Corona with a better top than the deluxe line and sell it for between 200 and 600 more than a deluxe is just a natural way to compete a upper end guitar market. If you ever tour the Corona facility, which I have, you will realize all it is going to take is to do the body, and then slide that right into the line. I think it is going be a boon for Fender, and that will drive more sales to all body makers as owners will want to do such as Fender does.
Plus remember, Copying some thing is the best compliment you can get. We taking Warmoth bodies and doing high end finishes should be happy this is being done. they are copying us.

 

[ORCRiST]

"Select instruments for select individuals."  Leaving aside the odiousness of calling people "individuals," I also find the "select" part obnoxious.  Yay - I have money to spend on fancy toys, so I must be superior to folks who can only afford to by Squiers off-the-rack.

Gimme a break.

It's Fender, what do you expect? I'm pretty sure their company motto is: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

They're are basically the Apple of the guitar world. Selling at best an average product at astronomical prices because their sheeple
are happy to be treated like mushrooms. After all that's what Steve Leo wants.

 

[swarfrat]

No,  that's Gibson.

Astute observation all, but if I were the big dubya this discussion would make me a uncomfortable.

 

[-CB-]

This would explain the wicked new CNC machine that's clearly able to carve up several pieces at once to increase production and lower costs,

Cost of production is irrelevant to selling price.

You were correct in saying "lower costs", cost being what the manufacturer has invested.

The market determines the selling price, based on features, and perceived value / benefit.

 

[Jusatele]

the funny thing is, if you take a tour of Fender in Corona you learn of all the parts they make for Esenada, so it seems it is cheaper to make some parts in America and ship them to Mexico. Why? They already have the machine and it makes more than the amount than they can use in Corona. So then why is a Corona Guitar worth more than a Esenada guitar? It cost more because of the American worker cost more. The value on resale is reflected in the fact that it is American made. However you can pick up a lot of MIM Guitars and realize they are built just as good as the Corona model.

So should Fender, just like almost every manufacturer in the USA out source all production? If they did the same person complaining about people over priced labor would be in the same boat. The truth of the mater is it does not mater what you do, I could find someone to do it cheaper. Remember that when you buy a non USA built product. You are contributing to the outsourcing, and one day it will be your job.

Fender is offering a upgrade in their American line for not to much more than an American Deluxe. I applaud them for that, they are offering it for a grand less than Custom Shop prices starting points. Why complain, they could just discontinue the American Line, do the same thing in Mexico, and we would watch a few thousand more jobs leave this country.

I am not arguing here, I am simply saying this is a good thing, no matter what you think it will keep more money flowing meaning more people can afford products like Warmoth. After all how many places do you see selling lower priced bodies and necks than Warmoth? I can name 3 without even doing a search.

 

[Cagey]

This would explain the wicked new CNC machine that's clearly able to carve up several pieces at once to increase production and lower costs,

Cost of production is irrelevant to selling price.

You were correct in saying "lower costs", cost being what the manufacturer has invested.

The market determines the selling price, based on features, and perceived value / benefit.

Rather than argue that wildly ill-conceived statement, I'll assume either you meant something else or I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[-CB-]

No its not ill conceived, its really the basics of both modern manufacturing and marketing.  This isn't really the thread for it, but always consider - goods are priced to get as much return as the market will bear.  The market - the buying public - always sets the price, in an indirect means, through their decision to buy, or not to buy.

The USA made guitars sell for more, simply because the buying public is willing to pay more.  The actual investment cost in raw materials and labor (and packaging, storage, marketing, production overhead, etc etc), while not insignificant, does not set the price in the market.  There is a perceived "added value" to the USA made item (in guitars at least), and people are willing to pay for that perceived value.  The actual additional investment dollars may only be quite small, but the VALUE of certain features (such as USA made) may increase the market price by huge amounts. 

On the manufacturing end of things, its manufacturing's job to make the item for the smallest possible production investment. 

I hate to say, but will.... that Warmoth's investment in newer production machinery will not bring down the price of finished goods, but instead will increase profits for Warmoth..... which is why business invest in such things.

And being the good customer oriented company that they are - Warmoth would say "it will help maintain prices at current levels, and avoid increases....." which is good PR, but not really the economic truth of the matter.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

"Select instruments for select individuals."  Leaving aside the odiousness of calling people "individuals," I also find the "select" part obnoxious.  Yay - I have money to spend on fancy toys, so I must be superior to folks who can only afford to by Squiers off-the-rack.

Gimme a break.

It's Fender, what do you expect? I'm pretty sure their company motto is: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

They're are basically the Apple of the guitar world. Selling at best an average product at astronomical prices because their sheeple
are happy to be treated like mushrooms. After all that's what Steve Leo wants.

My Apple's the best computer I've ever owned...by far.  You couldn't pay me enough to go out and buy another Microsoft-based computer.  :dontknow:

Everybody's in it for the cash.  How is Fender copying anyone?  They own the "Strat" design.  Every product is copied from somewhere, some copies more successful than others.  Look at the first internal combustion engine; how many companies have copied it?  Every company out there have more than a few in their "arsenals."

How many companies copy the "Strat" design?  The "round back, double-horn" design is used by Jackson, ESP, it was used by Epiphone, Fernandez, B.C. Rich, Kramer, etc.  Everybody has one!

Warmoth did not design the "Strat," but you wanted a high-quality, hot-rodded COPY, where did you go?  You went to Warmoth.  ccasion14: 

Yep, that's right, we all own fake Fenders/Jacksons/Gibsons, but none of us seem to care; I know I sure don't.  My fake mish-mash of Charvel/Jackson/Fender-designed parts is the highest quality, best playing guitar I've ever played.

- The "Star" body was Wayne Charvel's design, used not only by Charvel but also Jackson's Custom Shop.

- The headstock on my guitar was the design used on an older Fender, but I can't remember the model.  Warmoth does use the body and it's a 7/8 one, I believe.  I can't remember what it's called.  :tard:

I absolutely LOVE my fake guitar and I'll be more than happy to build another in the future.  :cool01: