k to mV question

[line6man]

15.8 k dc resistance is probably a really hot pickup. In general I'd expect to be midrangey, loud, lacking dynamic range, and to not clean up well. That is assuming it's got a pretty standard type of construction.  Does that help?

yes...sounds right since it is a p-90...kind of.  As I read it, it is a stacked p-90, with two coils and it has 4 wires so it can be tapped.  Once taped output in increased but you look the hum canceling effect.
Here...what you you think?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/specialized/progressive/stkp1_p90_stack/

That pickup is not tapped, you're talking about coil splitting.

When you split a series-wired humbucker, output voltage and impedance (And DCR.) decrease, not the other way around.

 

[TroubledTreble]

It carries the moderate output icon. That may give clue to the winding. The 15.8k resistance reading may be due to a smaller gauge wire being used in order to create enough winds in the space allotted to create a large enough signal.

Without sufficient winds a pickup will have a weak output. Using a small gauge wire, say 44awg, there will be enough room for the windings. The increased ohm reading is due to the higher resistance of the smaller gauge wire. They do say the pickup is slightly taller than a standard P90, but this could be due to how the magnet is positioned or any other device sandwiched between the coils for proper magnet / coil arrangement.

 

[line6man]

It carries the moderate output icon. That may give clue to the winding. The 15.8k resistance reading may be due to a smaller gauge wire being used in order to create enough winds in the space allotted to create a large enough signal.

Without sufficient winds a pickup will have a weak output. Using a small gauge wire, say 44awg, there will be enough room for the windings. The increased ohm reading is due to the higher resistance of the smaller gauge wire. They do say the pickup is slightly taller than a standard P90, but this could be due to how the magnet is positioned or any other device sandwiched between the coils for proper magnet / coil arrangement.

This is my guess as well.

 

[Bruno]

15.8 k dc resistance is probably a really hot pickup. In general I'd expect to be midrangey, loud, lacking dynamic range, and to not clean up well.

I also thought this.
But then I saw the dimarzio HS3, 23K dc resistance and 90mV output.
All goes to hell ...
:sad:

 

[line6man]

15.8 k dc resistance is probably a really hot pickup. In general I'd expect to be midrangey, loud, lacking dynamic range, and to not clean up well.

I also thought this.
But then I saw the dimarzio HS3, 23K dc resistance and 90mV output.
All goes to hell ...
:sad:

DCR is not related to output. People make this assumption because it increases when you overwind, but change a few things around, like the wire gauge, and the numbers change significantly.

Look at the old Gibson mudbucker bass pickups with the 30k DC resistances. Their output isn't all that hot.

 

[Bruno]

Of course, it did not seem to have said otherwise, but my English is really bad so better that I'm quiet, I avoid more trouble  :laughing11: :laughing11: :laughing11:

 

[OzziePete]

If I understand correctly you are trying to figure out how many mV a 15.8k ohm pickup will produce. It is not possible to calculate it properly. Only testing will give good results.

There is not a standardized test. The type of magnet, wire, size and shape of the coil, metal content etc. will all effect the outcome, as does the method of testing. So for every manufacture there will be different results. mV should only be used as a ballpark number, but even then it can be misleading.

Pickup gurus like Bill Lawrence tend to concentrate on the inductance of a pickup rather than other readings, as an indicator of the pickup's performance. Now, I barely know what inductance IS, let alone it's relevance to an electro magnetic passive pickup & Bill's own website has an article from him , plus there's his transcribed comments in the Wilde Gate forum, but I have read & re-read that & still shake my head wondering 'wtf'......Maybe some of you could explain the relevance of inductance to a pickup as opposed the voltage or resistance?  :dontknow:

(Sorry if I have 'set the cat loose amongst the pigeons' here with this comment)

 

[Strat Avenger]

For the life of me, I just don't understand this fascination with high output pickups. While it can be preferable to keep the output level of an audio device as high as possible from early on in the signal chain to keep the SNR high, it is simply not worth sacrificing tone. Most amplifiers and stompbox overdrives/distortions/whatevers have the capability to boost the frick out of the signal, making it as loud as you want it. There is no excuse for not being able to push a gain stage into overdrive.

+1

 

[Strat Avenger]

When comparing stacked humbuckers with side-by-side humbuckers, it is "apples and oranges".
As was already pointed out, the 23k Dimarzio HS-3 is a very low-output pickup, yet most 14k to 16k humbuckers tend to be quite loud.

As a rule of thumb, humbuckers with a higher DC resistance tend to be "louder", with more bass & mid-range response, and more compressed sounding.
And as mentioned previously, typically do not "clean up" when the volume control is backed off.

I prefer 8k to 10k humbuckers, although I do have a Duncan JB in one of my guitars, and it is around 16k.

Another point of interest is that my 12.5k Dimarzio Air Norton is no louder than my 10K Duncan Screamin' Demon. It has a 270mv output, while an 8.4k PAF Pro is rated at 300mv. This corroborates the statement that DC resistance is not always an indication of a pickup's output.
The JB is a bit louder with a little bit more mid-range, and more compressed sounding than the Screamin' Demon.

 

[Cagey]

Pickup gurus like Bill Lawrence tend to concentrate on the inductance of a pickup rather than other readings, as an indicator of the pickup's performance. Now, I barely know what inductance IS, let alone it's relevance to an electro magnetic passive pickup & Bill's own website has an article from him , plus there's his transcribed comments in the Wilde Gate forum, but I have read & re-read that & still shake my head wondering 'wtf'......Maybe some of you could explain the relevance of inductance to a pickup as opposed the voltage or resistance?  :dontknow:

(Sorry if I have 'set the cat loose amongst the pigeons' here with this comment)

Inductance is a huge subject. Many books are written and classes are given on that all by itself. But, I'll try to keep this breif.

Inductance is the only reason a "traditional" passive guitar pickup works, so it is kinda important <grin>  Coil resistance is just a peripheral characteristic. Given a perfectly drawn wire of a given alloy, you can predict its resistance per foot surprisingly accurately. So, if you know what the total resistance of a coil is and the unit resistance of the wire, you can tell how many feet of wire are wound on a pickup, plus or minus some margin of error. But, that's about all you can tell. If it's a thinner wire, then it'll have a higher resistance than a thicker one, so the same total coil resistance can mean a great deal of difference in the number of winds on that coil, which changes its inductance and impedance dramatically, and consequently its frequency response and output level.

To "induce" simply means "to cause, influence or force". In electrical terms, you have inductors that induce currents. The manner and degree they can do that is often called "inductance". Most of this has to do with magnetic fields.

Any time you have a current flow through a conductor, you build up a magnetic field around it. The inverse is also true - any time you have a changing magnetic feild near a conductor, you induce a current flow. That's the magic that makes transformers (and pickups) work. You take a conductor (usually wire) and wind it around a magnetically permeable metal core (usually iron or steel). Run current through the conductor, and a magnetic field builds up in the core. Take the current away, and the magnetic field collapses, inducing a current in that same wire. Now, if there's a second winding of wire, there will be a current induced in it as well. That's where the terms "primary" and "secondary" windings come from.

In a typical transformer, like the power and output transformers in your amplifier, you don't usually open and close circuits except to turn the whole thing on or off. But, the current that flows when it's running is constantly changing direction because it's AC (alternating current). So, we get the same sort of effect. The magnetic field is building and collapsing all the time in that transformer, so current is being induced in the secondary winding(s).

How many windings, the ratio of windings between primary and seconday, the size and permeability of the core, and the size of the wire used to make the windings will all conspire to change the behavior of a transformer.

Pickups are essentially just transformers that are configured in a strange way.

Instead of running a current through a primary winding to generate a magnetic field, they use permanent magnets as the primary winding. Then, they use the guitar string as the core, then about a bajillion winding coil as the secondary. By moving the core (string) around in the magnetic field, it induces a current in the secondary. Amplify that, and you have a fairly accurate representation of the core's (string's) vibrations.

So, size of wire, number of windings, permeability and size of core, strength of magnetic field all work together as an inductor whose inductive characteristics produce a given result. And that's how babies are made <grin>