Insert studs from bridge on order

[Cederick]

I wonder if it's possible to order a body with the $10 option "insert studs from bridge on order" without actually buying the bridge? And just putting the studs in the cart?

Even if I prefer the Gotoh Floyd I have found that I may prefer the OFR for regular live use, because I wont have to worry about loosing an allen key or screw that holds the arm (that has happened and those little things are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find!), and it's just more convenient having the arm collar screw function, really.

 

[Cagey]

Well, they do sell them separately, so I don't see why not.

 

[pabloman]

I'm not completely sure, maybe 98%+-, that you could put an ofr arm on the gotoh. Just replace threaded housing recepticle bushing arm mount adapter socket apparatus thing (or whatever it's called) on the plate. That and the arm are about $22 on eBay. Might be worth a shot.

 

[whiskyboy1977]

Yes you can do this, I did it with my first Warmoth by buying the studs and having them installed with the guitar body.

 

[Cederick]

Well, they do sell them separately, so I don't see why not.

Well, it's stilla confusing choice of words.

If they just called it "insert studs on order" that would make it more "in general" rather than bridge specific.

Still, it's not clear that you have to buy the studs either, it doesn't say anything about that. But can't have too much words in such a short description box either...

 

[Cagey]

Maybe they don't want it to be clear. If you buy a bridge, it comes with studs. If you'd like, they'll install them for $10. It's pretty straightforward so that's the end of the discussion.

On the other hand, if you just buy studs, do you then want them installed? And then, are you sure they're the right studs? This is the kind of thing that makes automating the procedure difficult. Too many variables, which could turn into warranty work.

"You put the wrong studs in!"
"No, we didn't. You asked for black Floyd studs, and we put them in."

Never mind that there are a dozen different types/sizes of the things, some metric and some imperial, and an actual original Floyd Rose may not be exactly the same as a Gotoh OFR, which may not be the same as a Schaller OFR, or any of the aftermarket OFRs they sell on sites like Guitar Fetish.

They're really just a parts company. As soon as you start asking for any kind of assembly work, you're asking them to take on a certain amount of responsibility for correctness that they really don't have any control over. So, the easy way out is to simply not offer anything they can't control from beginning to end.

 

[BigSteve22]

Maybe I was just lucky: I was able to install my Hipshot studs in the American Standard Trem mounting holes with no problem what-so-ever.

Started them by hand to make sure they were perfectly straight and fit in the holes, then used a piece of flat maple 1x3 to push them in flush. Worked beautifully.

 

[pabloman]

Do the studs even matter? Why won't ofr studs and inserts work on a Gotoh or vice versa?

 

[BigSteve22]

As long as they are deep enough and the thread size matches, I don't see a problem. In fact, Hipshot told me I could use Fender studs with their inserts and vice-versa.

 

[Cagey]

Do the studs even matter? Why won't ofr studs and inserts work on a Gotoh or vice versa?

They might. But, it depends on a lotta things. Are the bushings the same diameter? Do the bushing and stud threads match? Are they on the same centerpoints? Is the the bearing surface of the same geometry? You can find those things out if it's important, but one has to wonder why. Just use what comes with the bridge.

Trying to mix and match hardware is a good way to fill your Drawer of Misfit Parts. Sometimes that can be handy, and maybe from time to time you can help out a friend in need of an obscure piece, but most of the time it just pisses you off when you realize how much money you have invested in hardware that will most likely just collect dust until you go tits-up and somebody has the presence of mind to toss it all.

 

[pabloman]

I understand all of that. What I'm asking is studs and inserts from an ofr being used on a gotoh or the other way around.

 

[Cagey]

I understand all of that. What I'm asking is studs and inserts from an ofr being used on a gotoh or the other way around.

Without some research, who knows? You have to check dimensions - sometimes multiple dimensions. You may come across somebody who will say "I've done that, and it worked out fine!" but that still might be an anomaly, or it may be that they don't care so much. Tough to say.

I've found that you don't goof around with bridges. They're a very important part of the whole system. Trying to cheat a manufacturer's intent will almost certainly bite you in the ass. Not that it can't be done - lord knows I've done it and seen it done - but it's poor practice that inevitably ends up costing you more time/trouble than it's worth.

 

[Cederick]

Do the studs even matter? Why won't ofr studs and inserts work on a Gotoh or vice versa?

Yes. But the problem is that I really want the Gotoh locking posts and they may also be of higher quality as well.

OFR bushing = 10 mm
Gotoh bushing 11 mm (same stud spacing, same rout also, except wall maybe 1mm further towards the pickup because of bigger bushings)

This is REALLY bugging me!

Warmoth offers routs for Gotoh tune-o-matic, Gotoh hardtail... And guess what, they have 11mm drill bits because they are using them for the tune-o-matic posts.

The only thing they would have to do is use the exact same routing template (in the CNC program) as the OFR and just adjusting the "top wall" next to the bridge pickup maybe 1mm further, and then just the 11mm drills they use for the Tune-O-Matics.

Maybe they could start using it if my friend (who works with CNC) made a new CAD file for Warmoth so I could start using Gotoh bridges?

I would gladly spend the extra $45 into this bridge rout...

I don't see the issue? Warmoth offers lots of Gotoh bridge routs, but NOT the floyd? I don't get that. They have the equipment for it... They just need another CAD file. And my friend could probably make one for them.

The non-recessed is even easier; just change the drill bit to 11mm... Nothing else necessary.


Sorry for the rambling, I just woke up and I just find it so annoying that Warmoth offers everything I want for my absolute dream guitar, except that 1mm wall rout and a slightly bigger drill bit for the bushing holes...

 

[stratamania]

Cederick, I think some of your dimensions may be a little out.

The important measurements would be centre to centre of the mounting studs which is 74mm on both units. Some documentation lists the Floyd at 73.9 mm as it's probably converted from inches.

You then need distance from nut to the line that would be drawn centre to centre as mentioned above.

"The distance from the edge of the nut to the center of the pivot post for the Floyd Rose Original is 25 1/8" for a scale of 25 1/2" and 24 3/8" for a scale length of 24 3/4" Floyd Rose.

The important thing is where the centre of the bushing holes and in turn the centre of the mounting studs are if they turn out to be the same the Centre of the gotoh mounts are in the same place, it's only the larger bushings which are 0.5mm radius bigger.  No need to move walls by a mm.

 

[Cederick]

Cederick, I think some of your dimensions may be a little out.

The important measurements would be centre to centre of the mounting studs which is 74mm on both units. Some documentation lists the Floyd at 73.9 mm as it's probably converted from inches.

You then need distance from nut to the line that would be drawn centre to centre as mentioned above.

"The distance from the edge of the nut to the center of the pivot post for the Floyd Rose Original is 25 1/8" for a scale of 25 1/2" and 24 3/8" for a scale length of 24 3/4" Floyd Rose.

The important thing is where the centre of the bushing holes and in turn the centre of the mounting studs are if they turn out to be the same the Centre of the gotoh mounts are in the same place, it's only the larger bushings which are 0.5mm radius bigger.  No need to move walls by a mm.

Floyd Roses are made in Germany and use metric system:
http://511e2271871424c2f15c-3b98a00d4daf07766c9421b476b3ba14.r8.cf2.rackcdn.com/OFRDimensions.pdf
Floyd Rose themselves say it's 74 mm.

Gotoh Floyd also have 74mm spacing. Actually, one of the knife edges is straight, which means it's possible to have the trem on different stud spacings without damaging it, but depending on the spacing the strings may come too close to one of the fretboard edges.

Anyway, I know the Gotoh fit in a OFR rout, but I prefer the better Gotoh studs, even if OFR would work.

The Gotohs have small locking studs inside the posts to lock it into place, which the OFR doesn't have. If the studs are made of better material I can't say, but many high-end guitar brands like Suhr, Ruokangas and Music Man have ditched the OFR for Gotoh.

The Gotoh is even cheaper than the OFR, amost half the price!

 

[stratamania]

It's actually some of Floyd Roses own documentation that has 73.9 mm. Some 74mm. Who knows if  its been converted form mm to inches and back again. I know they are made in Germany at least the original series.

I also know of the makers mentioned using them. Although I think the Musicman version made by Gotoh may be different to one you can buy off the shelf.

My Gotoh 510 has the locking studs too.

Back to 11 mm holes if the centres of the holes are in the same place as an OFR, why not just drill the holes wider as needed and fit the bushings or have someone local do it for you ?

 

[Cederick]

It's actually some of Floyd Roses own documentation that has 73.9 mm. Some 74mm. Who knows if  its been converted form mm to inches and back again. I know they are made in Germany at least the original series.

I also know of the makers mentioned using them. Although I think the Musicman version made by Gotoh may be different to one you can buy off the shelf.

My Gotoh 510 has the locking studs too.

Back to 11 mm holes if the centres of the holes are in the same place as an OFR, why not just drill the holes wider as needed and fit the bushings or have someone local do it for you ?

When you say it I know I've seen some 73.9mm spacings as well, sorry. You're right. But still... Too little difference to make any real issues with the straight knife edge on the gotoh

I guess the Music Man has the same base plate and maybe some modifications, but it's probably still the same quality probably. No expert in this area tho

I did send my Warmoth OFR routed body to a luthier and he said that it's risky to drill a hole bigger, also the 11mm hole would be interfering with the rout wall. (the OFR bushings are right next to the rout wall, no space between)

 

[pabloman]

So you need a 10mm bushing with M8 threads. They are out there. The problem would be finding one that doesn't have an open bottom. I'm sure you could find something to put down the hole for the locking studs internal set screw to push against.

 

[Cagey]

I did send my Warmoth OFR routed body to a luthier and he said that it's risky to drill a hole bigger, also the 11mm hole would be interfering with the rout wall. (the OFR bushings are right next to the rout wall, no space between)

It is risky to drill larger holes in place of existing holes. There's no center point so the bit will wander, and at best finding centers is an exercise futility since you're aiming at empty space. You have to plug the holes and start from scratch. It's not the end of the world, but it's more work than you might want to do. You may have to drill holes that will match your filler (dowels come in set sizes), so it starts getting complicated. I did it once and it worked out well, but it wasn't any fun. Well, maybe a little, since it worked, but it wasn't a trivial task.

It may be worthwhile to go back and review what it is you're trying to accomplish.

 

[stratamania]

The Musicman made for them by Gotoh will be of similar quality, but unless you buy a guitar with it already fitted you are unlikely to find one, that's the only point there.

The dimensions are probably the same on 73.9 versus 74 mm. The difference of how it is stated has probably been due to metric/imperial conversion and rounding up etc.

It seems to me the options available to do this with a Warmoth body...

1. Get a body with the OFR route and try and adapt the holes. Could be a challenge and may or may not work.

2. Get a body with the OFR route and accept the holes. Use Floyd/schaller studs and inserts and use the Gotoh on those. Practical and probably could be called a love story as Cagey might say.

3. Get a body with tremolo back cavity only, so that the rest of the routing and mounting stud drilling etc you can do or have done suitable for the Gotoh bushings, studs and  Tremolo.



perhaps 2. Is probably the most practical and back to where the thread started if you buy the studs and pay the extra Warmoth probably will install them. It's only an e mail or call to confirm.

Hope the above is of some help...


And today's play on words...


Whichever rout (e) you go down there's still time to change the road you're on...