If you don't see me for a while,

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Also, Carvin does sell discontinued models direct on Ebay.  Their BR615C has 400w at 4ohms, 600w at 2ohms.  I have the head that is in this combo amp - BX600, it was good enough to keep.  Most times I just used (1) 4ohm cab and 400w and never used all 400w.  It has all the features of the BX500 (except for the switchable 12AX7 preamp) and a few more.  The effects loop can be turned off, has a peak indicator, and the DI has a pre/post, but I always use the pre anyway.  The mute function and built-in compressors on both the 500 and 600 are the great things on it.  Once you play with a compressor, you'll wonder how you ever played without one.  The 9-band EQs on both are little redundant IMO, but they are switchable so it in effect can be used as a boost function or treated like a second channel.  As far as the sound you're looking for, with everthing flat, using the contour knob to scoop the mids is simple enough w/out even messing with the EQ.  Or you could set contour to zero and boost the mids with either or both EQs.  Those are you 3 bass sounds:  scooped mids, flat, and boosted mids and an EQ to season anything else to taste.


http://cgi.ebay.com/CARVIN-BR615C-1x15-600W-Bass-Amp-Amplifier-Combo-NEW-C_W0QQitemZ150416810488QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23058a61f8

 

[whyachi]

Also, Carvin does sell discontinued models direct on Ebay.  Their BR615C has 400w at 4ohms, 600w at 2ohms.  I have the head that is in this combo amp - BX600, it was good enough to keep.  Most times I just used (1) 4ohm cab and 400w and never used all 400w.  It has all the features of the BX500 (except for the switchable 12AX7 preamp) and a few more.  The effects loop can be turned off, has a peak indicator, and the DI has a pre/post, but I always use the pre anyway.  The mute function and built-in compressors on both the 500 and 600 are the great things on it.  Once you play with a compressor, you'll wonder how you ever played without one.  The 9-band EQs on both are little redundant IMO, but they are switchable so it in effect can be used as a boost function or treated like a second channel.  As far as the sound you're looking for, with everthing flat, using the contour knob to scoop the mids is simple enough w/out even messing with the EQ.  Or you could set contour to zero and boost the mids with either or both EQs.  Those are you 3 bass sounds:  scooped mids, flat, and boosted mids and an EQ to season anything else to taste.


http://cgi.ebay.com/CARVIN-BR615C-1x15-600W-Bass-Amp-Amplifier-Combo-NEW-C_W0QQitemZ150416810488QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23058a61f8

Once he hit the Drive knob in that video I heard it get a lot closer to what I was looking for. He said that knob controls the tube preamp, so I think that is going to be vital.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I don't need a huge graphic EQ. Part of the reason Mesa is sexy to me is that I can get a Carbine (if I suddenly become rich) and it has, like, six knobs on it. That's it.

Question - I understand what MOSFETs are, I think, t00b sound with SS reliability if I understand right. How does the power stack up to true tube and solid state amps?

I know 300W is an average combo amp on solid state and a full stack (or two) for pure tube, so where in the mix do MOSFET-powered amps fit in?

There's also tube powered mosfets to add to confusion.  All tube power vs. all SS power with a bass amp is quite the different than it is with guitar amps.  1st off watts is watts.  Putting a tester on them will show a 100w all tube guitar amp and SS amp will both use the same amount of juice but the tube will sound louder.  It's all in the wave form.  Actually an all tube amp will use more electricity than it's equally watted SS counterpart because of the heat created in tubes, but the point is still the same.  The tube vs. SS differences with bass amps are more tone related than perceived volume.  Many will tell you though that the tube tone in bass amps is so subtle that you're better off will all SS just for durability.  

 

[whyachi]

I don't need a huge graphic EQ. Part of the reason Mesa is sexy to me is that I can get a Carbine (if I suddenly become rich) and it has, like, six knobs on it. That's it.

Question - I understand what MOSFETs are, I think, t00b sound with SS reliability if I understand right. How does the power stack up to true tube and solid state amps?

I know 300W is an average combo amp on solid state and a full stack (or two) for pure tube, so where in the mix do MOSFET-powered amps fit in?

There's also tube powered mosfets to add to confusion.  All tube power vs. all SS power with a bass amp is quite the different than it is with guitar amps.  1st off watts is watts.  Putting a tester on them will show a 100w all tube guitar amp and SS amp will both use the same amount of juice but the tube will sound louder.  It's all in the wave form.  Actually an all tube amp will use more electricity than it's equally watted SS counterpart because of the heat created in tubes, but the point is still the same.  The tube vs. SS differences with bass amps are more tone related than perceived volume.  Many will tell you though that the tube tone in bass amps is so subtle that you're better off will all SS just for durability.  

So there are tube and solid-state MOSFET designs? My brain just gave up, I think. I wish there was a store somewhere (in Kansas) that had more than two brands of amps in it so I could try them out side-by-side.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Once he hit the Drive knob in that video I heard it get a lot closer to what I was looking for. He said that knob controls the tube preamp, so I think that is going to be vital.

My all solid state BX 600 has a drive knob.  My BX 500 with tube preamp has the same drive knob.  You can hit the tube bypass and remove the tube all together and the amp can still be driven.  The tube in the BX 500 preamp is misleading and sounds slightly different with it engaged.  IMO, that tube was only put in there to sell amps to people that think amps have to have tubes to sound good.  Make no mistake, the BX 500 is an all solidstate amp with a tube put in there for flavor.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Line6 is lots of fun, but there are more reviews of them breaking then rocking.

BTW, I went to jam tonight and played through a guy's Line 6 Lowdown Combo with 115.  It sounded good when he played through it, and I liked playing through it.  It wasn't my rig so I didn't jack with anything.  It was on the "rock" setting and I didn't get a look at the EQ.  I thought the tuner on it sucked.  It only told you if you were sharp or flat but gave no designation of the note.  Being tone deaf, I didn't know if it was E or E flat.  I told him I thought it sounded good.  He was real quick to point out that it was lightweight and if it breaks, nowhere close can fix it.  That was a real quick pro and con from the owner w/out commenting on the sound.

 

[Justinginn]

If you get over what is it, 300 watts, aren't you gonna be running through the system anyway? Remember that watts are logarythmic and that you have to have 10x the wattage to have 2x the volume. That's right, theoretically speaking, through the same speaker, a 100 watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. By the time you're into the 250+ watt range is the difference worth it? I don't play bass so don't take what I'm saying to really mean anything but that might be worth thinking about. The best bass amp I've ever played through was an Ampeg 15" with a tube preamp (questionable about how much it affected the tone), I think it was the bottom of the line, line out'd through the system. I don't spend much time playing bass but that was a great tone, even on the crappy bass I had. STD definately knows more but there's my 0.02, probably 0.03 because of Obama, yeah yeah yeah...

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

If you get over what is it, 300 watts, aren't you gonna be running through the system anyway?

Ideally yes, but you never know.  Most bars and clubs we don't lug around a big P.A.  Instead it's guitar amp and bass amp for room volume and a powered mixer for vocals, acoustic guitar, and a hint of kick drum.

The larger gigs with a full P.A. with subs, rig matters little for a bass player.  You could be a loud or quiet with your stage volume and it wouldn't effect the main mix one iota.

As far as the 100w being twice as loud as a 10w, that's probably true but there's other things too.  300w powering 8 speakers is louder than 300 watts powering just 1 speaker even though it's the same wattage.

 

[Justinginn]

Yeah you're right. Throwing around the words "300 watts" blows my mind so it's hard for me to imagine needing anything bigger. And yeah, speaker effeciency can make as big a difference as wattage so maybe think about that too? Ahh just listen to the bass players.  :toothy11:

 

[stubhead]

I watched clips on YouTube and either everyone I saw playing one sucked, or the amp did. The first one is entirely possible.

It was a bit like when I sat Wooten playing a Hartke stack. I know the guy is talented, but it still sounded like ass. I've seen great players in front of Hartke amps and they all sound the same to me.

I hope you understand that anything heard on YouTube isn't going to have much to do with what an amp is going to sound like in a real room, ESPECIALLY for bass - they just can't fit those big long sound waves through the little bitty wires. :toothy12: Even if you have decent headphones or studio monitor speakers hooked up, just look at the size of the speaker drivers - you wanna MOVE AIR, dude. I rarely even bother to listen to sound samples on the net, there's way too many variables - and they all sound the same? :icon_scratch:
There's just something so entrancing about blowing stuff off of shelves.... arty07:

 

[whyachi]

I watched clips on YouTube and either everyone I saw playing one sucked, or the amp did. The first one is entirely possible.

It was a bit like when I sat Wooten playing a Hartke stack. I know the guy is talented, but it still sounded like ass. I've seen great players in front of Hartke amps and they all sound the same to me.

I hope you understand that anything heard on YouTube isn't going to have much to do with what an amp is going to sound like in a real room, ESPECIALLY for bass - they just can't fit those big long sound waves through the little bitty wires. :toothy12: Even if you have decent headphones or studio monitor speakers hooked up, just look at the size of the speaker drivers - you wanna MOVE AIR, dude. I rarely even bother to listen to sound samples on the net, there's way too many variables - and they all sound the same? :icon_scratch:
There's just something so entrancing about blowing stuff off of shelves.... arty07:

Just my opinion, but yeah, all Hartke stuff - even those HyDrive cabs - sound alike to me. I understand I can't get a truly accurate sound from laptop speakers and YouTube, but I'm making due with what I have. I can't compare different amp manufacturers without driving to three different stores around here, as even this GC used to be a shoe store I think and the bass room has room for an Acoustic and Ampeg full stack and a couple Markbass combos, that's it.

I do the best I can with what I have, which means I'm going off referrals and YouTube for picking an amp.

 

[SlingBass]

I mentioned Carvin because they're good bang for your buck.  I've had 2 Carvin BX1200's over the years, and they proved to be bulletproof.  I can't say they were my ideal tone, but the power, trouble free/solid performance made them winners in my book.  Carvin is very popular on the TalkBass site, as well.  I currently just use an Epifani UL-502, but may also add the new Carvin B2000 head to my setup later in the year for outdoor and large gigs.  Buying used may be a consideration for you...but it appears you still have your due diligence to perform.  IMO & IME China made amps are something *I* would avoid, but that's just me   :dontknow:

 

[OzziePete]

Yeah you're right. Throwing around the words "300 watts" blows my mind so it's hard for me to imagine needing anything bigger. And yeah, speaker effeciency can make as big a difference as wattage so maybe think about that too? Ahh just listen to the bass players.  :toothy11:

300 watts measured in which way? Lots of different ways to say an amp is pumping out 300 watts, but make sure when comparing amps that the way these wattage figures are measured is consistent with each other.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Good point.  I'd also add that 5 or 600 watts not being pushed is probably running anywhere from 50 to 150 watts.  It's still better to have a larger watt head not break a sweat than have that 200 watt combo try to do the same 50 to 150 watts with the gain and master volume set much higher.  It may clip more and/or distort.

 

[whyachi]

Can you use a head that puts out 350W (8ohm) with a 300W 8ohm cab if you don't set it to 11 and rip the knob off, or are you risking blowing the driver?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I've done that with no problems, but some manufacturers recommend having a cab rated for twice what the head is.  And...if you run the amp at more than 50% for an extended period of time, your amp is realistically too small.  There's also the school of thought that says you can damage a speaker easier by underpowering it.

This is from Avatar's FAQ:
Can I use an amp that has a smaller power rating than that of the speaker cabinet wattage rating?    Yes. There are different schools of thought for guitar and bass guitar. For bass guitar solid state amps, the general rule is that with what ever power amp you have, if you are turning the amp up too much past halfway on the master gain with the input set at a normal level, then you should consider getting a higher wattage amp. What heats up speakers is straining the amp and that generally begins to happen above past half of the amps potential. That point of distorting differs from amp to amp but if you are straining the solid state amp, the speaker can get a gradual heat build up over a period of time. That could be a few minutes or it could be a couple of hours but if done for long enough, it can overheat the speaker voice coil to the point of melting or warping out of its round shape so that it rubs against the magnet and makes a bad scratching sound. Then that speaker is blown and is no good.

 

[tubby.twins]

That's usually safe.  A bit of extra power isn't going to kill the driver, but definitely watch your volume.  Transient peaks (i.e. slap bass) can use up a lot of headroom even when the volume isn't cranked.

 

[whyachi]

That's usually safe.  A bit of extra power isn't going to kill the driver, but definitely watch your volume.  Transient peaks (i.e. slap bass) can use up a lot of headroom even when the volume isn't cranked.

The reason I was asking is because that would allow me to buy one 112 cab now and run at 8ohms until I need more power, then expand.. Plus, even the sleazy dive bars around here have decent PA's. Long ago Kansas City signed a deal with the devil where we gave up road quality and serious sports teams in exchange for great live music and barbecue, and we haven't looked back.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

That's usually safe.  A bit of extra power isn't going to kill the driver, but definitely watch your volume.  Transient peaks (i.e. slap bass) can use up a lot of headroom even when the volume isn't cranked.

I'm not a slap player but this is one more reason a compressor is a must.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The reason I was asking is because that would allow me to buy one 112 cab now and run at 8ohms until I need more power, then expand.. Plus, even the sleazy dive bars around here have decent PA's. Long ago Kansas City signed a deal with the devil where we gave up road quality and serious sports teams in exchange for great live music and barbecue, and we haven't looked back.

If you're always going to be P.A. (with subs) assisted playing indoors then you'll never need a bigger rig.  There is a formula which escapes me and I can't find the info when searching, but it has to do with speaker efficiency.  Even at the same wattage, doubling the speakers increases the audible output.  For example, (2) 250w 12" are louder than (1) 500w 12".  Whether with 1 or 2 speakers, both hypothetical speaker sets are 500w, but the one with (2) speakers is more efficient.  I like 12s, think 15s and 18s are to floppy, muddy, and distorted IMO, but a good set of 10s are just about ideal.  Regardless of style, most modern bass rigs are entirely made of 10s or use 10s in combination with something else.  A 4x10 has the surface area of an equivalent 20" speaker, and depending on the the speakers and cabinet tuning, they have the frequency response lower than an 18" sub and can handle a low B.  I'm tired of hauling around a 410 even with wheels on it, so I do a 210 Neo and a 112.