I'd like to see a headless guitar option & sale of the associated parts

[kgk9000]

I would like to see a headless option, where Warmoth also sells the parts, where a likely candidate is

https://www.hipshotproducts.com/files/all/4h600.pdf

I can see some interesting routing work might make sense for the tuners, and eventually Mr Warmoth could design a special body for it, I suppose... (ideally ergonomic, perhaps like a Strandberg, but it's up to him).

I think that a more compact guitar should sell in sufficient quantity to hopefully make it worth the tooling.  I note that Kiesel seems to be doing very well with their Vader.

 

[Logrinn]

I understand what you are saying, especially with the (I presume) popularity of the Kiesel model (models?).

But at the same time I would imagine that the clientele that is drawn to Warmoth are more interested in the traditional (Fender) models. Just my guess anyway.
If they, Warmoth that is, would make a survey - here at the forum and/or on their FB-page, perhaps - asking their old and new customers, they could get some numbers allowing them to make the decision if it's worth the investment of making a new model.

I know that I would give them a negative response in the matter, since I happen to think that all headless guitars are ugly as [fill in your word for the most ugly thing you know here _____ ]. But, hey, that's just me.

 

[Cagey]

I'm not sure how well Kiesel is actually doing with that model. First clue that they don't sell many of them is it's a "custom shop" only offering. So, sales have yet to achieve any kind of production levels - the unit remains an off-line operation. Then, very few other manufacturers offer that style of guitar at all, even from their custom shops. If the market is under-served by the existing players, certainly somebody who wanted to make money would try to fill that need. Finally, how many people do you see playing them, or even considering owning one? Providing products and/or services for which there is little or no demand is a good way to burn through money pointlessly. Hell, even with traditional instruments in a viable and robust market there's a saying that goes "If you want to make a small fortune in the musical instrument business, start with a large fortune."

Personally, I've never been able to figure out what that design brings to the party. I wouldn't call them "ugly", but they're certainly nothing special in the aesthetics department. There doesn't appear to be any design points that resolve or improve some issue that plagues traditional guitar designs. I mean, if they reduced costs while maintaining sonic and ergonomic quality, that would be something. But, there doesn't seem to be anything there. No special characteristic like maintaining tune under severe operation, extraordinary sustain or articulation, just... an odd configuration. Tuners are at the bottom rather than the top. Nothing against the idea, but how is that better than what we're doing now?

So, demand is low and there are no selling points with which one might increase demand. Tell me again why I would want to be in that business?

 

[kgk9000]

But at the same time I would imagine that the clientele that is drawn to Warmoth are more interested in the traditional (Fender) models. Just my guess anyway.

I think that there is no question that you are right!  But I think that there isn't more that they can do in the Fender space, as they've done it all... so, anything incremental will hopefully tap a reasonable market and create repeat customers.

I admire them making a guitar like the Nomad:  It's probably not because it will make a lot of money, but perhaps it helps them to round out their offerings.

 

[kgk9000]

Personally, I've never been able to figure out what that design brings to the party. I wouldn't call them "ugly", but they're certainly nothing special in the aesthetics department.

The headless guitar is mostly about being compact:  The headstock on a regular guitar is really wasted space, and the body is much longer than it needs to be (unless the bridge is near the edge [except perhaps for ergonomic reasons]).  So, some people want a compact guitar with a 25.5" scale (the limit being the Steinberger).  Sometimes there is a combination of compactness with ergonomics, an example of this would be Strandberg (I've never tried one, but it's obvious that it should sit like a classical guitar).  Bass guitars are particularly excessive about their consumption of space, and that's why headless bass seems to be more popular.  (Actually, the bass people are more advanced, they also use active pickups, etc.) 

Your financial points are well taken, but once the NRE costs are met to program the CNC machines (hopefully modest, as they must have a CNC guy on their staff), hopefully it could bring in more money than a lot of their other models, I'm not sure.  But the lack of a headless option is really conspicuous by its absence.

Perhaps it comes out to how cost-effectively a model like this can be offered.

Finally, turning to Carvin, they've been making their Alan Holdsworth model (headless) for a while, and now they've made a more modern version, the Vader, so perhaps there is some demand.  Then again, I don't see any headless guitars from any major manufacturer (Fender [includes Jackson, etc.], Gibson [excluding Steinberger], Yamaha), so they're obviously not worth stocking from the perspective of Guitar Center.

 

[mayfly]

so they're obviously not worth stocking from the perspective of Guitar Center.

My theory is that Guitar Center won't stock headless guitars because they can't figure out how to display them!  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Headless designs don't flip any switches for me, but I did manage to be impressed by one once. My guitar teacher brought one to our lesson and I was asking him most of these same questions. And maybe razzing him a little as it seemed an odd fit for our material, they are jazz lessons... His required an unusual string with a ball on both ends (maybe they all do, I dunno?). To demonstrate its utility he detuned and removed the low E, re-installed it and got back in tune in about 15 seconds flat. Can't do that with a Bigsby  :laughing3:

 

[AirCap]

I would like to see a headless option

I'd like Warmoth to send me a free pizza with every 10th guitar part I buy from them, but it ain't gonna happen either. Is it?

 

[stratamania]

This guy made one out of Warmoth parts. He has a thread on TGP covering the build.

[youtube]4liNTeUPcbM[/youtube]

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I only see their practicality if you do a fair amount of "fly-out" gigs & you take it on the plane with you as "carry on".
Short of that, I miss the headstock.

 

[amigarobbo]

Personally, I've never been able to figure out what that design brings to the party. I wouldn't call them "ugly", but they're certainly nothing special in the aesthetics department.

The headless guitar is mostly about being compact:  The headstock on a regular guitar is really wasted space, and the body is much longer than it needs to be (unless the bridge is near the edge [except perhaps for ergonomic reasons]).  So, some people want a compact guitar with a 25.5" scale (the limit being the Steinberger).

Well, almost,

 

[amigarobbo]

Personally, I've never been able to figure out what that design brings to the party. I wouldn't call them "ugly", but they're certainly nothing special in the aesthetics department. There doesn't appear to be any design points that resolve or improve some issue that plagues traditional guitar designs.

Actually, I say that my (80s) Steinberger has got the best sustain, lack of dead spots, and it simply doesn't go out of tune. And it's not headstock heavy...  :laughing7:


Although that is with my graphite and phenolic Steinberger, with the Hohner rock maple and rosewood clone, err. less so. :sad1:

 

[Timmsie95]

One of the best benefits of headless guitars is that they are seemingly weightless, because of the lack of headstock. Most of the weight is centered between the strap buttons, so you can play standing up a lot longer.

 

[spaceranger]

I think it's a cool idea, but a headless neck requires a particular bridge, at least. As a part, it's not as widely interchangable as Warmoth's current line of necks.

 

[Cagey]

If anyone gets the urge to build a headless, there's some support available at HeadlessUSA with JCustom/Steinberger parts. A "Vintage" construction neck from Warmoth can have it's head cut off without interfering with the truss rod adjustment/mounting. Install a headpiece on that...

Then, fab up a body and install a tuning bridge...

The headpiece and bridge will run you $210, and the rest of the parts should be pretty standard stuff from the usual suspects.

 

[mayfly]

Do you think I could make a bender work with that bridge?  :headbang:

 

[Cagey]

I'm quite confident that you could accomplish anything you set your mind to  :laughing7:

 

[DustyCat]

I picked up a preowned H2 from Cravin in the Spring of 2015 and have since been steadily impressed by it since then. At the time I thought I would be traveling by train to major metropolitan cities to play (which didn't pan out) and justified the purchase that way.

I can go into greater details with pages of reasons why I like my headless guitar but in a nutshell, what I like about it is that its comfy and sounds good. It's also easy to manage. I don't bump into things in my tiny 1 bedroom apartment with it, and I can even play it in my ez chair when I get lazy.

The other thing I noticed is the sustain. Technically there is less material to work with which means less overall resonance, right? But I think the main reason why my H2 can achieve long sustain is because the strings are basically attached DIRECTLY to the neck. There is no middle man post or machine head. And to honest I think this feature has room for improvement with more "J' maybe even more "U" wraparound, around the neck (more resonance).

You might also notice that on the H2 the "nut" is actually a fret just like the rest of the frets. Now one beef I do have is that sometimes bending down on the lower frets causes a weird friction on the string that feels weird, but generally speaking I am for this kind of consistency (open chords sound like fretted chords because the material is the same).

What can I say, I ended writing paragraphs but long story short, my H2 by Carvin was purchased as a secondary and is fast becoming a primary. And I just LOVE the fact that when I carry it in its case it doesnt attract as much attention. I have my Warmoth VIP in a Reunion Blues case (backpack style) and although it offers unparalleled protection its a humongous beacon ("Guitar Player/boom-boom Right Here"). My headless case is basically like a briefcase. I used to think, I'll bring my H2 as a backup, like a sidearm. But now when I have a gig, its more like..."What other guitar are we gonna need... to bring with the H2?"

Warmoth watch-out 'cause now I got my eye on Carvin. But don't worry, there's still hope for you: I have yet to see a chambered H2 w/'f' hole, with MULTISCALE neck with FULL SCALLOP.
I checked the receipt but I don't think my H2 is chambered (cause the feature is not listed), but it does get great "pop" on attack and that slightly nasal/hollow midrange akin to a violin.

Still interested in multiscale with full scallop however :toothy10: and a forearm contour couldn't hurt.
Solid.  :guitaristgif:

 

[muns53]

I posted the exact same want! I had a Newburgh '80's Steinberger GM2TA forever. I sold it a few years ago because I just didn't like how it sounded (was probably mostly the EMGs in it and the graphite neck), the neck profile didn't fit my hand well at all and it was sticky, and the neck heel was a big fat obstructive block (the 5-bolt version). However, I loved the compact size, I loved the ergonomics of the guitar and I LOVED the trem. It was so musical - all bends kept the strings in relative pitch, really cool with chords. And it also would drop down very easily. I considered modifying the neck heel and trying to get a custom neck made for it, but it would have ruined it's vintage value. As it was, I bought it for $750 when I was a teenager, put a couple hundred into it to get it refretted and the trem fixed and then sold it for over $3K to a very happy guitarist who appreciates it.

Anyway, it would be really cool to have a headless warmoth - to be able to order all the wood and neck options just so...