Huge variations between «identical» necks?

[alfi27]

Hi guys!

My first post here, hopped on the Warmoth-train this summer and haven't looked back. Don't think I'll ever buy a production guitar again, unless maybe a Gibson style one (although precisionguitarkits can solve that..). Anyway, my last project is a blackguard Tele which turned out great, except for one thing that I figured way too late. Having another Tele (Cabronita) that I put together in August, which has a neck with the following specs: roasted maple, 59 roundback, 1 11/16" width, EVO6100 frets etc; the absolutely best neck I've ever played! Due to that huge success it was obviously a nobrainer to go with the exact same specs for the new project as well, except that it's regular maple instead of roasted because they didn't have it in stock at the time (though at present time they have no less than SIX roasted maple necks in stock with those exact specs).

However, that's not the issue. The issue is that this new neck feels vastly different from the old one... It feels a lot thinner, flatter and it definitely has way smaller shoulders which makes it nothing like what I would call a «roundback». The exact measurements from fretboard to center of the back may be the same, I'll get a caliper tomorrow and do the measuring. I seriously doubt that they're the same, but if they are that's the only thing that's similar. I can play the new one for a bit, and then go grab the old one and feel instantly without even playing it that it's significantly thicker overall. My third neck has a Wolfgang profile, and even that feels thicker so I have no clue what to think really...

I obviously contacted Warmoth and we will all know more when I have the measurements, but I was wondering if any of you guys have the same experience? I keep reading about some people claiming that the 59 is soo fat (like my old neck), and others that say it's only slightly bigger than a modern C (like my new neck), but people are different and I haven't seen anyone writing that they have two very different 59's like mine. I'm also pretty sure that no matter how this case ends, I will want a new neck for this guitar because it's close to perfect except for the neck profile! And then comes the billion dollar question, which neck profile to get next?!  ??? :icon_tongue:

 

[Tonar8352]

I have had my hands on more Warmoth necks than I can count and in my experience there are variations in the necks that are the same spec's, but I would not say "huge variations". I will say no two are exactly alike and there are some I am more fond of than others. I have a particular Flame Maple Tele Boatneck that is my favorite and none of the others I have ever bought for myself or finished for customers feels like it. That said I still stand by my philosophy that "my favorite guitar is the one I'm playing when I'm holding it". So give your new neck a try.

 

[AirCap]

HUGE VARIATIONS....

Really? Huge? Variations, of course - it's not a manufactured material. God grew it, and every tree is different.

IDENTICAL....
Really? Again? No such thing. Similar, yes - identical, no. Now go read the top one again, OK?

 

[alfi27]

HUGE VARIATIONS....

Really? Huge? Variations, of course - it's not a manufactured material. God grew it, and every tree is different.

IDENTICAL....
Really? Again? No such thing. Similar, yes - identical, no. Now go read the top one again, OK?

Read my original post once again... I said identical specs, on paper! You look at the spec sheet of both necks and the same numbers and words are written. And I never said that I expected the necks to be identical, of course that’s not possible. The thing is that this new neck feels more like a standard thin. If people buying a neck with a fatback profile got wizard instead Warmoth can’t just go «it’s god’s work, sorry mate». As far as I know god is not employed by Warmoth, doing neck sanding. And maybe you should notify Warmoth that for your next project you don’t mind getting a Strat body even if you order a Tele, because maybe god decided to grow you a Strat instead...

 

[Kostas]

The three FAT necks I have (had) are all different, the two 59's I have feel the same. All five necks have 1 11/16" nut widths.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=27600.msg391467#msg391467

 

[stratamania]

One thing to bear in mind. Is that although even if CNCed exactly the same, you then have hand sanding which will introduce variables.

Often the difference of something quite marginal can feel very different to the hands.

You would really need to check all the dimensions and contours at different points of the necks to see how different they are, but it may be less than it feels.

 

[alfi27]

I have had my hands on more Warmoth necks than I can count and in my experience there are variations in the necks that are the same spec's, but I would not say "huge variations". I will say no two are exactly alike and there are some I am more fond of than others. I have a particular Flame Maple Tele Boatneck that is my favorite and none of the others I have ever bought for myself or finished for customers feels like it. That said I still stand by my philosophy that "my favorite guitar is the one I'm playing when I'm holding it". So give your new neck a try.

Yes of course there will be reasonable variations, which I would have been totally fine with. The difference between these two necks is not «reasonable» by any means, but I’m actually starting to think that they may have the same measurements from neck center to fretboard. What makes them so different is that the old one has large shoulders and is almost a perfect semi circle, while the new one tapers off a lot more towards the center. It may not be a V per definition, but in comparison it sure feels like it. At least not what I would call "roundback" in a million years, it’s not particularly round feeling. Like you said though, I will definitely play it and try to like it. That would have saved me quite a lot of money in that case, but I’m afraid that everytime I pick up the old neck after having played the new one for some time, I will feel and think that it’s a shame the new one is not as fat as this one. The other problem is that if I go with something fatter I’m afraid it will be too fat, but at least a fatback can be sanded by me or a luthier to the same specs as the old 59.

 

[alfi27]

One thing to bear in mind. Is that although even if CNCed exactly the same, you then have hand sanding which will introduce variables.

Often the difference of something quite marginal can feel very different to the hands.

You would really need to check all the dimensions and contours at different points of the necks to see how different they are, but it may be less than it feels.

Especially that last part there is very true, when I had the guitar fret levelled (yes, I was stupid enough to spend money on that before I figured that the neck was as expected) the fella also adjusted the action for me. He had to raise it about 1 mm, and that made a huge difference.

 

[Fat Pete]

Get a profile gauge and compare them/photograph the results.

 

[stratamania]

One thing to bear in mind. Is that although even if CNCed exactly the same, you then have hand sanding which will introduce variables.

Often the difference of something quite marginal can feel very different to the hands.

You would really need to check all the dimensions and contours at different points of the necks to see how different they are, but it may be less than it feels.

Especially that last part there is very true, when I had the guitar fret levelled (yes, I was stupid enough to spend money on that before I figured that the neck was as expected) the fella also adjusted the action for me. He had to raise it about 1 mm, and that made a huge difference.

Something I don't get here. Is why would action need to be raised 1mm following a fret level. If the action was OK, after a fret level one would expect action to be lowered.

 

[alfi27]

One thing to bear in mind. Is that although even if CNCed exactly the same, you then have hand sanding which will introduce variables.

Often the difference of something quite marginal can feel very different to the hands.

You would really need to check all the dimensions and contours at different points of the necks to see how different they are, but it may be less than it feels.

Especially that last part there is very true, when I had the guitar fret levelled (yes, I was stupid enough to spend money on that before I figured that the neck was as expected) the fella also adjusted the action for me. He had to raise it about 1 mm, and that made a huge difference.

Something I don't get here. Is why would action need to be raised 1mm following a fret level. If the action was OK, after a fret level one would expect action to be lowered.

Alright, so the thing is that the bridge on my Tele is a vintage spec one, with those annoying flat headed screws in the saddles. I didn't have a small enough screwdriver to adjust the action high enough, so it was too low when I gave it to him. The reason why he had to raise it 1 mm was because I am a hard picker, and the way he adjusted it was also slightly too low for me. That's not the issue nor have anything to with it, so please try to keep it on topic.

 

[stratamania]

alfi27, Come on you introduced the 1mm action variable into the thread, not me. If it has nothing to do with the topic and that concerns you why mention it in the first place.

Get a profile gauge and make some measurements.

 

[alfi27]

alfi27, Come on you introduced the 1mm action variable into the thread, not me. If it has nothing to do with the topic and that concerns you why mention it in the first place.

Get a profile gauge and make some measurements.

Sorry man, I didn't mean it like that, I just meant that I didn't want to keep discussing that particular issue as the topic is about something else. It was meant as an example on his claim that really small differences can be huge in a "feel-perspective", and it's completely fine that you asked me about that, it was a little vague I'll admit

I'll go buy one today if they're not sold out!

 

[stratamania]

Good, you might discover the differences are a lot less than you feel. Especially so if you are used to the first neck.

 

[alfi27]

Alright, so the profile gauge I bought was way too stiff to use with the necks, scratching everything up. I did some measurements with a caliper though, and I got the following numbers:

New neck: 0.838 - 0.933"
Old neck: 0.877 - 0.968"

So the fact that it's actually smaller, doesn't exactly help with the shallower contour...

 

[Logrinn]

It's been mentioned here before that even very small differences in measurements between two necks can feel very differently because of how sensitive the fingers and the hand is.
Case in point - I built a guitar from scratch back in the eighties, everything hand carved and hand filed and hand sanded. When the neck was sanded down to perfection I finished it. Can't remember what kind, propably soms nitro type of finish. And very thinly (didn't have the patience for anything else). When the finish was dry and I started playing it it felt completely different compared to when it was raw. And I mean completely different. Just because of that very thin layer of finish.

With that said, I've got four Warmoth necks, three of them 59's, and all of the 59's feel different from each other. One especially so compared to the other two.

 

[alfi27]

Here is a method a friend of mine came up with to show the profile itself. You can see that the roasted maple neck is a perfect semicircle, the regular maple is not. And I threw in the Wolfgang neck as well just because I think it's kinda insane and cool at the same time how visible the asymmetrical shape is  :laughing7:

EDIT: if you open the photo, and then right click and copy the address to the photo itself, you will see it vertically (like it should be).

 

[Cagey]

Neat trick. I had mentioned in another thread how you can't see neck variations, but they're easy to feel. This photo set shows how true that is. Even the Wolfgang neck looks no different until you look at the profile the cord clearly shows.

Warmoth usually stamps the neck heel with the fretboard radius and profile name for this very reason, as well as writing the nut width and fret size installed, and if it's a satin finish, they apply a red "dot" sticker. What's the story told on your neck heel?

 

[alfi27]

Yeah it was actually a interesting trick, especially the Wolfgang was very surprising!

The neck heel doesn't reveal anything special, other than it's supposed to be a 59.

 

[alfi27]

Update: I did an interesting experiment, where I swapped the two 59 necks in question. The Blackguard Tele sounded really dark with the fatter roasted maple neck, I had to change the volume pot from 250k to 500k and it started to get a little closer but it was still loads darker than it used to be. The Cabronita with the regular maple neck on the other hand, was insanely bright! Most likely at least partially because the action didn't match up (it was so low that it killed the resonance a bit), and I didn't bother tweaking the action when both guitars are professionally set up for their respective necks. Long story short, the guitars are perfectly balanced tonally with their original necks and now that I realised that there is yet another factor in the lottery of buying wooden parts, I decided to just skip the hassle and get used to the slightly thinner neck.