how useful is the "out of phase" sound

[-CB-]

now i'm not farmiliar with the math that goes into phase angles so i don't know if it's the time delay that will stay linear across the bandwith or the phase angle, or neither.

as for my opinion of out of phase, sounds like garbage.

The delay of the capacitor delayed signal is constant at 60 degrees.  And ya know what?  Thats what Gibby did on the L6s and it sounds pretty nice~!~  (two fairly hot yet beefy HB's doing that... not too bad).

 

[Phrygian]

CB, I'll read up on that.  You didn't comment on pickup location, though. 

EDIT:

Wow, I feel like a dolt.  Although it is 90 degrees, CB.    The phase relationship of voltage and current in a capacitive circuit:

 

[Phrygian]

I'm going to go as far as saying that I think the phase relationship of the pickups may be part of the reason that the 2nd and 4th switch positions are sometimes mistakenly perceived as "out of phase."  Even though the pickups are wired in parallel, I can see how the phase differences (of harmonics especially) would create a comb filter like effect.

 

[DiMitriR33]

right, there is some amout of phase cancelation in the harmonics. note that a string vibrates at many frequencies, not just the fundemental, the phase of the harmonics may be diferent at diferent points on the string and some cancelation is always present with more more than one pickup.

ok so if one really wanted to get goofy, a 4 way switch could be used to shift between in phase, 60 deg. out, 120 deg. out, and 180 out.

 

[-CB-]

Hey whats 30 degress to a musician?

I'm still trying to remember why... I thought it was 60.  Something to do with using three caps with ground (or voltage actually, then again ground is a voltage...) reference.  It was an oscillator we needed.  The idea was to go 180 degrees, and use the inherent lack of tolerance to make the thing actually warble, then introduce some shunting on the final cap to vary the speed a little.  Not totally unlike the vibrato circuit in a Fender amp (which is where I took the idea from, thanks Leo). 

Whatever tho... it lags, and in so doing, creates a unique tone... that does not exactly sound like a OOF tone.  Its way more "strattish" , Knopfler tone if you will... the #4 tone on an L6s generally gets favorable reviews.

 

[DiMitriR33]

i looked it up, ok a purely capacitive curcuit has a -90 shift. a cap in series with a resistor will have a lesser shift, now i didn't study the math for long and wont claim to fully understand it but i suspect that a low frequency will have a greater shift than a very high frequency. the cap is the greater sorce of impedence at low frequencies and i'll bet that the shift comes closer to a perfect capacitor. ok now an inductor will also have a shift at +90 degrees so in reality the math is complex and will give me a headache.

i should mention this is used in single phase ac motors. there is a "start winding" that is in series with a capacitor. this gives another phase offset from the ac source. the second phase gives a circular motion to the magnetic feild. without it the motor might not turn and if it did would have no reference for direction.

 

[spauldingrules]

How about shutting up an rocking.  :headbang:

 

[RLW]

How about shutting up an rocking.   :headbang:

Amen. I'm as big a fan of analyzing stuff to death as anyone, but criminy. Crank it up and annoy the neighbors, and put the slide rules back in the pocket protector.

:evil4:

 

[dbw]

Haven't you ever heard of math rock?  :doh:

 

[-CB-]

Awwwww fuggetaboudditt.

 

[Phrygian]

How about shutting up an rocking.  :headbang:

Amen. I'm as big a fan of analyzing stuff to death as anyone, but criminy. Crank it up and annoy the neighbors, and put the slide rules back in the pocket protector.

:evil4:

Brothers, if we were always busy playing music, this would be one defunct forum.

 

[stubhead]

Posting a post on the internet telling other people to stop posting posts on the internet and instead, shut up and play their guitars, is a bit too post-modernist for me, I fears.... :cool01: