Horns & Brass

[swarfrat]

Anyone work extensively with horns & brass? For years, I've had this idea in my head, of wanting to do hard rock with an iintegral horn section. Not horn hits on a keyboard, not post production afterthoughts. Not hired guns, part of the band. I mean like take AC/DC and Def Leppard, replace the 2nd guitar player with brass, put them in a warehouse practice space for 6 months, and then form a band with the ones that didn't kill each other. I've heard a few bands do something oh kinda sorta maybe like it. But they're mostly more like Blood Sweat & Tears with more distortion. I want spit in your face, kick you in the gut punch.  . I've got some ideas about it, but it's kinda crazy, and I have zero experience with brass. So if anyone has any relevant experience or opinions, please chime in

A couple thoughts so far:
I think in the interest of 1) finding players willing to buy into such an idea, 2) preserving the punch and crispness that comes with a stripped down rhythm section that knows that the space left over rocks just as hard as what you fill up. 3) having some hope of not having to chart out every last detail it needs to be small. Big enough to sound like a a section. Small enough to preserve impact. I think that number might be three (especially when you consider points 1 and 3)

I want punch. I love sax, it's a beautiful rich buttery instrument.  But I kinda think it'll just blunt the attack I'm looking for. I'm kinda thinking 2 trombones and a trumpet + 3 piece rhythm section.

As I said - I'm no brass player. I'm a guitar player. How in the heck do you ever get started finding your first guy that knows what he's doing well enough to find the rest? I know lots of decent guitar players. I know of virtually no decent brass players that played for their own personal interest after graduating from college.

So let's hear it. Do you double on a wind instrument?  Work with them? Like them?  Think this is crazy? I realize that Warmoth is probably not the best place to discuss this, but hey it's OT, and I'm particularly interested in guitar & bass players opinions on these things. Plus, I pretty much only do one or two forums at a time. So sue me, ban me from OT, whatever.  It's no more OT than mixed drinks

 

[Mor Paul]

Crazy? Yes. Do I play wind too? Yes.
Try it, man. I'd like to hear what you can come up with. It may be hard to not fall into a rut with a unique band setup.

 

[AutoBat]

I believe someone has thought of this idea before (and I liked it then & now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaYC78oNKQk

 

[NLD09]

I played brass for years. I say to do what you want you'll need to find somebody who's willing to be a "section leader" of sorts, who can write music well and transpose it to fit the other instruments and let him do all the horn work. Otherwise it'll be hard to keep them happy and they'll just fight with each other. You need a designated leader.

Saxes can get pretty punchy, especially if you find a good tenor sax guy.

 

[swarfrat]

Hmm that's interesting, and I like it, but still not quite what I had in mind.  


Claws of Paradise  is a bit closer, but still not quite the big impact of say "Back in Black" with a spit valve. Which is good, because maybe there's still room for such an idea.

I've toyed with the idea of learning an instrument, but I fear it'd take forever to get good enough to get ideas out in the air. Besides, someone has to play guitar (and sing - ugh, and write) .

 

[OzziePete]

Anyone who was going to Aussie pub rock in the 1980s will tell you to consider a French Horn!  :icon_scratch:

One of the best pub acts I saw was "Hunters & Collectors" on their first national Australian tour (early 1980s), breaking out of the State of Victoria. As you can hear on the below vids, the guitarist was very ice pick trebly on a Tele and the bass guitar was also a trebly piano type sound. This created space to introduce the horn section or add counter rhythms or samples. The band also had a guy handling some synths and some sampling/percussion as well as the drummer, AND a 3 piece horn section which had a bloody French Horn!

On the night I saw them, it was a hot summer night in Sydney and they blew this little pub apart. 7 or 8 guys on stage, full of energy and points to prove. This primal sort of music drive most of us insane that night...(I know I went home exhausted).. The band went off to Germany to record with Conny Plank but the sessions were dismal for them and they returned to Australia the wiser for it. I like some of their earlier stuff as it unique in sound, later on they tried to tone it down and be more commercial sounding. Quite a few hits in Australia, and legends in the pub rock scene....  ccasion14:

I don't know if this is the kinda sound you might be shooting for, but showcasing this band does give you some alternate sounds involving a brass section!

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGBE-0Z8GVs&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhpZ6WF0dwU&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyiYBajrefY&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civzfZ_3uVc[/youtube]

 

[Cagey]

It's kinda tough to imagine. It's been done to some degree - BS&T as you mentioned, also Chicago and ELO. All good, but nothing to get excited about, really. To me, brasswinds are more like special effects than musical instruments. I know that's wrong a million ways from Friday and plenty of examples exist to discredit me, but that's just how I hear it, and I suspect many people do, or they'd be more popular. There are few Chuck Mangiones or David Sanborns who get mainstream acceptance.

Just for fun, here are the top 10 pop/rock sax solos from the '70s, all of which I'm sure everybody will recognize, some of which include horns...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWRtHyUEUos​

It's inspirational if that's what you want to do, although they're pretty isolated examples. But, there are more. If you follow that link to YouTube instead of watching it here, you'll see a bunch of similar links in the sidebar.

 

[Steve_Karl]

2 bones and a trumpet .... errrr ... that's a bit strange.
I'd replace a bone with a tenor sax that can double on bari ... and I agree ... make sure you have a section leader who'll take care of everything including writing the arrangements.

 

[swarfrat]

Perhaps, but so is the idea. I arrived at that notion thinking about more ballsy punch and less bright airy traditional usage of brass. It's not supposed to sound like "I give you princess Buttercup!"

 

[erogenousjones17]

Everyone go listen to Streetlight Manifesto. I'll wait here.

 

[pabloman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUN9fawmNAc&feature=related

I love skacore arty07:

 

[Jusatele]

Do Bagpipes count?. I love them and I have what they call a practice tam, basically it is the horn part you play, I want a full set but that is kinda a bucket list item.

 

[Cagey]

Do Bagpipes count?

Only as a cruel and unusual torture device. Ranks right up there with cats caught in a mangle, nails on a chalkboard, and Fran Drescher's voice <grin>

 

[OzziePete]

Do Bagpipes count?. I love them and I have what they call a practice tam, basically it is the horn part you play, I want a full set but that is kinda a bucket list item.

Having stood next to someone warming up one of those contraptions at a football match I can tell you those things are crazy........and meant only to tortutre the poor souls who have to listen. "Cat being squeezed to death" is what springs to mind. I would happily shoot any bagpipe player upon warming one up, if I could get indemnity from prosecution. I think it's true the Scots used them to intimidate their warring opponents, kinda had their opponents thinking "If they would do that to cats, what will they do to us!" Much worse than a pack of Scots lifting kilts and baring bollocks.

On a side note I find it amazing that we've discussed horns and sax and not yet brought up a double entendre joke or Kenny G! :laughing7:

 

[swarfrat]

I think the AC/DC reference renders the thread safe from Kenny G.  What surprises me is that when I mentioned AC/DC with horns nobody mentioned Highway to Hell album art.  As cool as horns are though, there are some really bad examples out there. For instance, the Kazoo solo in Brown Sugar,  David Sanborn who removed the mouthpiece and stuck a hair dryer in its place.  And Kenny G, just for being Kenny G. (What do Anti-Bacterial Soaps, Women's tears, and Kenny G have in common? )

 

[Jusatele]

I love bagpipes,  but then I have been accused of being a sadist

 

[Firebird211]

I have an appreciation for bagpipes too, although more appropriate for a funeral.  It's just that they are such a powerful self-contained instrument, no power, no PA, and yet you can hear them a mile away. :icon_thumright:

 

[OzziePete]

I have an appreciation for bagpipes too, although more appropriate for a funeral.  It's just that they are such a powerful self-contained instrument, no power, no PA, and yet you can hear them a mile away. :icon_thumright:

I am led to believe that the reason why they play the bagpipes at funerals is to ensure the deceased is, in fact, dead.....Even nearly dead people rise up to to yell obscenities against that racket!  :icon_tongue:

 

[Cagey]

I am led to believe that the reason why they play the bagpipes at funerals is to ensure the deceased is, in fact, dead.

LOL! I'm going to have to remember that one! <grin>

 

[OzziePete]

I am led to believe that the reason why they play the bagpipes at funerals is to ensure the deceased is, in fact, dead.

LOL! I'm going to have to remember that one! <grin>

I was mucking around a bit with the bagpipes-hating analogy. I don't like them that is for sure, tonally, but completely respect their place in Scottish culture. And I must say that hearing "Auld Lang Syne" played properly on them is magical. Having known quite a few Scots in my time, I can appreciate their attachment to those instruments. They are bloody hard to play, it takes a lot of practice to get it right. I have a curiosity enough to want to try and play one, just once, to see what the fuss is about, but I'm not so keen to wearing the obligatory kilt.....