Harmonic resonance?

[bagman67]

Could one or more strings be encountering some funkiness as they break over the saddles?  Maybe break out the magnifying visor, and get in there with a needle file and clean up the channel the string runs through between the clamp and the actual break point.

I already tried doing a little bit of filing inside the "slot" where the string goes.

Your solution, clearly, is to start a new build!

 

[Cagey]

Does the harmonic occur all up and down the neck, or just at the positions you mentioned? If it's just down there, it could be a fret that's just a BCH too high - maybe the 5th or 7th? That would give you the harmonic when you fret, and it could sustain after you let go.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Does the harmonic occur all up and down the neck, or just at the positions you mentioned? If it's just down there, it could be a fret that's just a BCH too high - maybe the 5th or 7th? That would give you the harmonic when you fret, and it could sustain after you let go.

The harmonic is only happening at the third fret on the low E string.  Everywhere else, regardless of string, is normal.  After I let go, the harmonic just rings and rings, pretty much drowing out the next few notes until I stop the string from vibrating.

Could it be a fret, even if the strings aren't making contact with the fret?

 

[Cagey]

Most definitely. Not all high frets buzz. Sometimes they produce harmonics if it's the right fret. Pluck the open string, and just very briefly and lightly touch the string at the 5th fret. You'll get a nice harmonic to ring out. See if that sounds anything like what you're hearing in resonance to the notes you play. Also, try at the 7th, 9th, and 12th frets.

If that's what it is, you might be able to get rid of it by raising the bridge saddle for that string. But, that's not a fix because then that string will be high relative to the others. It's just a diagnostic test. If that turns out to be the problem, then you need to file that fret down a couple thou, re-crown it and polish it back to smooth. Actually, if that turns out to be the problem, I'd have the entire neck looked at. If it's never been professionally set up, chances real good that are there are other frets out of spec.

I do that sort of thing here all time; I'd never install a neck without that kind of attention.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Most definitely. Not all high frets buzz. Sometimes they produce harmonics if it's the right fret. Pluck the open string, and just very briefly and lightly touch the string at the 5th fret. You'll get a nice harmonic to ring out. See if that sounds anything like what you're hearing in resonance to the notes you play. Also, try at the 7th, 9th, and 12th frets.

If that's what it is, you might be able to get rid of it by raising the bridge saddle for that string. But, that's not a fix because then that string will be high relative to the others. It's just a diagnostic test. If that turns out to be the problem, then you need to file that fret down a couple thou, re-crown it and polish it back to smooth. Actually, if that turns out to be the problem, I'd have the entire neck looked at. If it's never been professionally set up, chances real good that are there are other frets out of spec.

I do that sort of thing here all time; I'd never install a neck without that kind of attention.

Okay, what about string trees?  My guitar has a string "bar."  Do I need it?

At the neck, past the nut but before the string tree/bar, I pulled the string slightly outwards and the ping stopped.  It sounded like it should sound.  The moment I took the strong tension of my finger off the string and let it return to its original position, the pinging started again.  This was with the locks to the nut open.

 

[Cagey]

String trees are only used to compensate for poorly formed nuts. You have a locking nut, so the trees are moot. The bar behind your nut is to keep the strings flat before you lock them down after re-stringing, otherwise they're liable to sharp on you. Seems a little silly, since you're almost certainly going to retune those strings a half-dozen times with the fine tuners before they're stable, but Floyds are... unique.

It's possible the nut has a poor exit point, but that would not affect fretted notes. So, if you're hearing "singing" or "resonant" notes on open strings, you may have more than one problem: a nut that needs attention and some frets that need attention.

Neither is unusual on a new neck, so don't feel like you've been singled out for punishment. If you buy a higher-end instrument with enough profit margin in it to cover the cost, setup is usually covered by the dealer. If you build/assemble it yourself, then it's up to you or whoever you hire to do it. In any event, it's usually unavoidable. Tolerances are just too close to expect to screw things together and have them work.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

String trees are only used to compensate for poorly formed nuts. You have a locking nut, so the trees are moot. The bar behind your nut is to keep the strings flat before you lock them down after re-stringing, otherwise they're liable to sharp on you. Seems a little silly, since you're almost certainly going to retune those strings a half-dozen times with the fine tuners before they're stable, but Floyds are... unique.

It's possible the nut has a poor exit point, but that would not affect fretted notes. So, if you're hearing "singing" or "resonant" notes on open strings, you may have more than one problem: a nut that needs attention and some frets that need attention.

Neither is unusual on a new neck, so don't feel like you've been singled out for punishment. If you buy a higher-end instrument with enough profit margin in it to cover the cost, setup is usually covered by the dealer. If you build/assemble it yourself, then it's up to you or whoever you hire to do it. In any event, it's usually unavoidable. Tolerances are just too close to expect to screw things together and have them work.

Well, looks like I'll be makin' a trip to the luthier on this one.

 

[ORCRiST]

Well, looks like I'll be makin' a trip to the luthier on this one.

I believe I had this same issue with my ESP/LTD (although mine was with the D string). While I've read some of your troubleshooting steps, I was confused as to whether
you were doing said steps to the nut or bridge end of things. My first thought was what Cagey has already suggested:

Not all high frets buzz. Sometimes they produce harmonics if it's the right fret. Pluck the open string, and just very briefly and lightly touch the string at the 5th fret. You'll get a nice harmonic to ring out. See if that sounds anything like what you're hearing in resonance to the notes you play. Also, try at the 7th, 9th, and 12th frets.

If that's what it is, you might be able to get rid of it by raising the bridge saddle for that string. But, that's not a fix because then that string will be high relative to the others. It's just a diagnostic test. If that turns out to be the problem, then you need to file that fret down a couple thou, re-crown it and polish it back to smooth. Actually, if that turns out to be the problem, I'd have the entire neck looked at. If it's never been professionally set up, chances real good that are there are other frets out of spec.

I do that sort of thing here all time; I'd never install a neck without that kind of attention.

(Note the last line, I'll translate: "Send it to me. I'LL fix it for you. Kidsthesedaysgetoffmylawnrabblerabble.")

In addition, I believe a shim under the nut might be the ticket. Stewmac has these half-shims that may be perfect for your problemo: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolo_parts/Floyd_Rose_tremolos_and_parts/Locking_Nut_Shims.html

Either way, let us know if you get it fixed and what you (or your local tech) did to correct it. Inquiring minds want to know.

:rock-on:

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Well, looks like I'll be makin' a trip to the luthier on this one.

I believe I had this same issue with my ESP/LTD (although mine was with the D string). While I've read some of your troubleshooting steps, I was confused as to whether
you were doing said steps to the nut or bridge end of things. My first thought was what Cagey has already suggested:

Not all high frets buzz. Sometimes they produce harmonics if it's the right fret. Pluck the open string, and just very briefly and lightly touch the string at the 5th fret. You'll get a nice harmonic to ring out. See if that sounds anything like what you're hearing in resonance to the notes you play. Also, try at the 7th, 9th, and 12th frets.

If that's what it is, you might be able to get rid of it by raising the bridge saddle for that string. But, that's not a fix because then that string will be high relative to the others. It's just a diagnostic test. If that turns out to be the problem, then you need to file that fret down a couple thou, re-crown it and polish it back to smooth. Actually, if that turns out to be the problem, I'd have the entire neck looked at. If it's never been professionally set up, chances real good that are there are other frets out of spec.

I do that sort of thing here all time; I'd never install a neck without that kind of attention.

(Note the last line, I'll translate: "Send it to me. I'LL fix it for you. Kidsthesedaysgetoffmylawnrabblerabble.")

In addition, I believe a shim under the nut might be the ticket. Stewmac has these half-shims that may be perfect for your problemo: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolo_parts/Floyd_Rose_tremolos_and_parts/Locking_Nut_Shims.html

Either way, let us know if you get it fixed and what you (or your local tech) did to correct it. Inquiring minds want to know.

:rock-on:

Okay, I tried what Cagey suggested with the harmonics.  All of the frets make different pitches, yet I can still hear the harmonic resonance eminating from under the tone of the harmonic.  In other words, the harmonics are loud and clear but I'm also hearing the resonance as well, but it's in the "background," so to speak.

 

[stubhead]

Satan is telling you to switch to glockenspiel and donate your guitars. Wait'll you hear the sound - all alone, late at night.  Some guys put a piece of foam underneath the strings at the headstock, which makes it go away. So we send the voices after them.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Satan is telling you to switch to glockenspiel and donate your guitars. Wait'll you hear the sound - all alone, late at night.  Some guys put a piece of foam underneath the strings at the headstock, which makes it go away. So we send the voices after them.

So where does the foam go?  It's going to take one seriously stiff piece of foam to remedy the issue. 

 

[stubhead]

It sounds to me like one length of one string in the headstock above the nut is resonating with that G note. Some people just put a piece of foam underneath all six strings just behind the nut, when they're recording. If you can isolate which length on which string it is, you may be able to block just that piece. It's unusual for one to be that loud, but not impossible.

 

[MikeW]

A friend of mine had a problem similar to this and strangely enough it was with G as well. He found that it wasn't just on the first string, but the third (12th fret), fourth (5th), and sixth (3rd) as well. Solution was to put a piece of foam UNDER the sproings, between the bottom of the bridge cavity and the sproings themselves. Worked like a charm.

 

[stubhead]

The high volume of the resonance is what makes me think it's likely to be a length of string at the headstock. Truss rods can buzz, and springs vibrate, but to feed the resonance back ito the strings, it's got to be a pretty good reservoir of energy. One thing I'm sure of, it's fixable, somehow.... but if you don't like problem-solving & chasing down weird stuff, music's not such a great hobby anyway! :laughing3:

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Well, the guitar is sitting with the luthier now.  He had a few mins to check it out earlier and the good news is that he doesn't think it's a fret or anything.  He's almost certain its a weighting issue and it's just hitting that "frequency."  He's going to try swapping the trem springs and see if that does the trick, and if not, we're going to try a different tremolo block.