Gotoh 510 trem + 720 mod

[mdurg68]

Using a Gotoh 510 trem, will the strings sit too low if going with the 720 mod on a soloist body?

I already placed my order few weeks ago... but I was looking at photos of the Suhr Pete Thorn which I'm kind of emulating and their finger board has the normal amount of overhang.

I guess with shimming the neck you can solve that problem if it end up being a problem at all.

 

[aarontunes]

I'm not sure you'll be able to get the 510 bridge low enough to set up correctly, with a 720 mod in the neck pocket. 720 mod is typically only used in conjunction with recessed bridge routs, where the bridge can be set really low in the body. This is not the case with the 510. It cannot be recessed, and must sit above the body.


You may want to call in and talk to somebody about it.

 

[Cactus Jack]

I'm not sure you'll be able to get the 510 bridge low enough to set up correctly, with a 720 mod in the neck pocket. 720 mod is typically only used in conjunction with recessed bridge routs, where the bridge can be set really low in the body. This is not the case with the 510. It cannot be recessed, and must sit above the body.


You may want to call in and talk to somebody about it.

Honestly, I would expect Warmoth to call the customer to discuss, not the other way around.

If the 720 mod and the 510 bridge are incompatible and cannot be set up correctly why is it even an option?

 

[aarontunes]

Honestly, I would expect Warmoth to call the customer to discuss, not the other way around.

If the 720 mod and the 510 bridge are incompatible and cannot be set up correctly why is it even an option?

Good questions. There are several things to address here.


Regarding your first question, people order Warmoth parts with all kinds of oddball option combinations all the time. They use them in all kinds of crazy ways, and with all kinds of crazy hardware, all the time. It's impossible for us to know or predict what every customer's intended use for any given part, or combination of options, might be. We do our best to watch for obvious conflicts, and we do call when we find them. For all I know, customer service has already spotted this and made a call, or is planning to. They are in a different building than I am, so I can't be sure.

Secondly, our website is incredibly complex. There are literally trillions of possible combinations of options. You can imagine how difficult it is to manage that, and how changing one thing might inadvertently affect something else. That seems to be the case with the 720 mod. We officially discontinued the 720 mod some time ago. At that time it was removed completely from our site. Somehow over the last few months it has become visible again, and no one noticed until just now. Within the last few minutes we have begun trying to figure out why, and again remove it from the website. By tomorrow it should be gone again.

Lastly, as I mentioned before, we do routinely call customers when we see something that seems to be a clear conflict. And as I said before...our sales team may already be aware of this, and planning a call. I don't know. My advice for mdurg68 to call us was my response to him as a forum member, reading his question on a forum. I don't know his name. I don't know his phone number. I have no idea what his order number is. But what I could do in that moment was give him some advice to act upon, which I did. Meanwhile, our sales team is being made aware of this thread, just in case they haven't already spotted this issue.

So in fairness to Warmoth....I read this thread about 40 minutes ago. Since then, I have:

1. Responded to the customer with actionable advice.
2. Made our CSR department aware of the thread, so they can look into it.
3. Researched the problem by checking the option on four different models on our website.
4. Created a ticket for our developer, who is already working on a fix for the problem.
5. Written this long post.


EDIT: Immediately after I saved this post, our developer notified me that the 720 mod has again been removed from the site, so this error doesn't happen again. So about 45 minutes from being made aware of the problem to having it removed from the website.

 

[mdurg68]

Thanks I’m going to get a hold of the csr, hopefully it’s not too late. I was kind of thinking the 720 mod was a cosmetic thing. But I just happened to be eyeballing a Suhr (Pete thorn) again and noticed the distance of the board off the surface of the guitar and it hit me that the sting path would be pretty low compared to bridge height.

I didn’t get anything too exotic, soloist body with gotoh 510 trem

 

[mdurg68]

Thanks Aaron, I just sent an email to Justin who is the csr.  Well I guess 2 cool things, I got a direct response from Aaron ( love your vids) and I found a bug in your system ( I was a beta and alpha tester for CorelDraw and the first 2 Adobe creative suites many moons ago, lol.

Hopefully wood hasn’t been cut and can be resolved...

 

[DangerousR6]

I'm not sure you'll be able to get the 510 bridge low enough to set up correctly, with a 720 mod in the neck pocket. 720 mod is typically only used in conjunction with recessed bridge routs, where the bridge can be set really low in the body. This is not the case with the 510. It cannot be recessed, and must sit above the body.


You may want to call in and talk to somebody about it.

Just out of curiosity why wouldn't it be possible? It's just a 2 post trem, not really any different than the Wilky or a Floyd... :dontknow:

 

[aarontunes]

Just out of curiosity why wouldn't it be possible? It's just a 2 post trem, not really any different than the Wilky or a Floyd... :dontknow:

Since the 720 mod lowers the plane that the neck sits on by a fair amount, it's necessary the bridge sit on a lower plane too.

That Wilky rout is only semi-recessed. It extends the range of the bar when you pull it upwards, but it doesn't lower the plane of the baseplate at all. The trem is still sitting fully above the body, just as if there were no recess at all.

For more info on why we can't fully recess a 510, check out my responses in this thread: https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=31446.msg442515#msg442515

The 720 mod has always been very problematic and confusing, with the potential for some very nasty outcomes, which is why it was discontinued.

 

[DangerousR6]

Just out of curiosity why wouldn't it be possible? It's just a 2 post trem, not really any different than the Wilky or a Floyd... :dontknow:

Since the 720 mod lowers the plane that the neck sits on by a fair amount, it's necessary the bridge sit on a lower plane too.

That Wilky rout is only semi-recessed. It extends the range of the bar when you pull it upwards, but it doesn't lower the plane of the baseplate at all. The trem is still sitting fully above the body, just as if there were no recess at all.

For more info on why we can't fully recess a 510, check out my responses in this thread: https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=31446.msg442515#msg442515

The 720 mod has always been very problematic and confusing, with the potential for some very nasty outcomes, which is why it was discontinued.

Ahhh, makes sense, hadn't noticed the posts weren't recessed. But I do agree with your statement in the other thread, I don't like the recessed trems. To me just seems the lazy way around, although it does allow the bridge and string height to be extremely low...

 

[Ric Moore]

The 720 mod has always been very problematic and confusing, with the potential for some very nasty outcomes, which is why it was discontinued.

Interesting, I’ve spent the last couple of weeks checking out different configurations for a thinline Tele and I was able to choose the 720 option. I was going to ask on here and found this thread by searching for “720”. Just wanted to let you know Aaron.

 

[aarontunes]

Thanks Ric.


A couple weeks ago, as a result of conversation we had regarding this very thread, we made it available on the website again. Then, before I could come back to this thread and post about it the covid-19 thing came and distracted everybody.


Thanks for the reminder!

 

[rlicandro7]

I'm not sure you'll be able to get the 510 bridge low enough to set up correctly, with a 720 mod in the neck pocket. 720 mod is typically only used in conjunction with recessed bridge routs, where the bridge can be set really low in the body. This is not the case with the 510. It cannot be recessed, and must sit above the body.


You may want to call in and talk to somebody about it.

What about a Gotoh 510 with the semi-recessed rout? I am wondering if that is possible for a potential build. The Ibanez AZ models seem to have that and they work just fine/great.

 

[jay4321]

2 minor contributions:

1. I love the Gotoh 510 trem and it is by far my favorite trem bridge. And I’ve used just about everything common. Everything I need, nothing I don’t. This is the way to go if you’re a 2 post trem guy.

2. I like the feel of Wilkinson’s but the semi-recessed routing was a pointless mistake and almost an eyesore. Yes, you float it and can do a little more but, in my case, I don’t and it just looks bleh. Also, and purely anecdotal: that guitar doesn’t sustain well - it’s had a few necks and several pickup combos, the bridge and body the only constants.

Have a project guitar in the works now with another 510t and hoping luck holds up

 

[WindsurfMaui]

Thanks Ric.


A couple weeks ago, as a result of conversation we had regarding this very thread, we made it available on the website again. Then, before I could come back to this thread and post about it the covid-19 thing came and distracted everybody.

Aaron, I'm confused if the .720 mod only works with recessed trems why is it being offered again for all trem systems? I just read the info on the website about the .720 mod and there is no mention of needing a recessed trem. I have been considering a rear routed Soloist with a Wilkerson trem and was considering the .720 mod because it made the neck body fit look better. So if I choose a Wilkerson or Fender American standard trem should I not get the .720 mod? Thanks

 

[aarontunes]

Wondering why the website allows the 720 mod on all bridges is akin to going to Yellowstone and wondering why every possible thing that could hurt you hasn't been roped off and had a warning sign posted next to it. There are so many ways to combine our parts and options that the website can never possibly take them all into account and protect every person from a bad outcome in every possible scenario. Sometimes you have to know what you want and do your own research to make sure it will work. 


If you want my advice, it is to never go near the 720 mod. It's dangerous and it can hurt you.


If you like the way it looks and insist on it, then my advice is to never get it in conjunction with a bridge that isn't recessed.


If you still really, really, really want a picture of yourself with a buffalo then go ahead.....but ye have been warned.

 

[PhilHill]

Wondering why the website allows the 720 mod on all bridges is akin to going to Yellowstone and wondering why every possible thing that could hurt you hasn't been roped off and had a warning sign posted next to it. There are so many ways to combine our parts and options that the website can never possibly take them all into account and protect every person from a bad outcome in every possible scenario. Sometimes you have to know what you want and do your own research to make sure it will work. 


If you want my advice, it is to never go near the 720 mod. It's dangerous and it can hurt you.


If you like the way it looks and insist on it, then my advice is to never get it in conjunction with a bridge that isn't recessed.


If you still really, really, really want a picture of yourself with a buffalo then go ahead.....but ye have been warned.

  :laughing11: :laughing11: :laughing11:

 

[aarontunes]

I'm assuming you have seen this, but if not:


[youtube]https://youtu.be/ITl4iHXq4V0[/youtube]




Also, I should say that my opinion of the 720 mod is not shared by everyone at Warmoth. Some people here love it. But when you ask me what I think....I tells ya, straight up.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[WindsurfMaui]

I have seen that video. I have seen all of your videos multiple times. Since there is nothing new on TV to watch I watch your videos on a loop every night. I have to admit I think the sight of your finger pointing at that ugly gap when there is no .720 mod freaked me out and I think I didn't hear anything else said after that.

Seriously I think Warmoth should put a disclaimer on the .720 info with a link to that video so all customers are informed before they make a decision without all important info. But you have a convert and I am swearing off all .720 mods. I will fill that ugly gap with  miniature troll dolls or something.

PS we could use a new video.

 

[aarontunes]

I have seen that video. I have seen all of your videos multiple times. Since there is nothing new on TV to watch I watch your videos on a loop every night.

Well done.

I have to admit I think the sight of your finger pointing at that ugly gap when there is no .720 mod freaked me out and I think I didn't hear anything else said after that.

Embrace the space. Art exists in the spaces.

Seriously I think Warmoth should put a disclaimer on the .720 info with a link to that video so all customers are informed before they make a decision without all important info. But you have a convert and I am swearing off all .720 mods. I will fill that ugly gap with  miniature troll dolls or something.

Putting that video on the 720 mod page is not a bad idea. I keep waiting for the big bosses to tell me to shut up about not liking the 720 mod. To their credit, they let me speak my mind....but the bottom line is the bottom line. If I disappear one day you'll know why.

PS we could use a new video.

Here's a secret: remember how strapped I was making the videos from home? How I was stuck at home with only the things in my house to make videos of? Well it's even tougher now. I am back at work, but all the departments are isolated from each other due to covid restrictions, so all I have is what's in the web department. AND...because we have been so focused on working through our backlog I am unable to order any new parts to do videos of. We haven't had the manpower to spare.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

 

[WindsurfMaui]

  Ha ha I would have voluntiered my new Strat Gibson conversion 24 3/4" neck in quarter sawn Mahogany (unfinished) if I knew you needed demo parts. I ordered it on the last day of July and it shipped today which surprised me since I thought I wouldn't see it until med October because of the backlog. Maybe because it is unfinished helped move it through the process faster..