going out of tune...

Orpheo

Hero Member
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2,783
some of my previous topics were a bit more trivial, but this is a serious matter.

my most recent W-les paul is going out of tune all the time. one bend, one heavy strum, and its out of tune again. I tested a bit myself, and I just made a big bend. before the bend the string was nice in tune, afterwards, it was extremely flat.

what might the problem me?

I can alsmost surely rule out the way I string, because that way, I use on all my guitars, and they dont have that problem much.


I dont have a tremolo on this guitar, so thats ruled out too

Perhaps the nut? but the strings fit nice in the nut, and I cant imagine that the nut might have to do so much with going of out tune so much. this extreme

last option: strings themselves. I used on this one d'addario's, and it seems like they're still stretching, 3 weeks after I strung the guitar up for the first time, and playing with the guitar for at least 1.5 hours a day since I got her. So: what might the problem be?

 
Funky Phil said:
What's the nut made out of?

Is the problem most noticeable on the G string?

all the strings, but G is giving me a lot of problems, indeed.

the nut is an earvana nut, and the scale is 25.25''
 
Courtesy of Frank Ford at www.frets.com

threadstring.JPG

Here Frank is beginning to string up an acoustic, but it could be any steel string guitar.  He has the hole in line with the neck, so the string passes straight through.

loopstring.JPG

Here you can see the string is passed under and to the outside.  You want just "a little bit" of slack in the string - as you'll see later on.  Don't get too much slack!  Frank uses his fingers as a guide.  I use about half a frets worth at the first fret.

kinkstring.JPG

Now bend the string over itself sharply.  You have a sharp bend at the back of the tuner, and a sharp bend over itself.  Thats all you need to lock the string on the post.

windstring.JPG

Wind 'er up!

snipend.JPG

Tuned to pitch and cut short.  Do you see how little there is on the post?  You can get by with as little as one wrap, or even less.  For plain unwound strings, I like two wraps.

1.  String up correctly
2.  Use minimal post wraps.  Too much on the post makes for slack that can happen there.
3.  Stretch in the strings by grabbing them at fret 12 and pulling up hard at least a few inches.
4.  When you tune "down" to get below a note, in preparation to tuning "up" to pitch, be sure you go down low enough, so that when you go back up, all the slack is taken out.  That is... when you tune down, slack occurs in the wrap, the gears, the nut, the bridge, etc.  Even though you tuned "up" again, you want that up tune to be a healthy amount, not just a gnats hair.
5.  Make sure the strings don't stick in the nut - Warmoth nuts are cut for .010 sets or smaller (.009, .008 ok).  If you have heavy strings or odd sets, you might find some tweakage needed on the slots. 
6.  Make sure the bridge angle is ok.  Some folks like the stop bar really low - thinking (mistakenly) that this increases sustain.  If the angle over the saddles is severe, you'll have issues similar to a tight nut.
7.  Its NOT your tuners slipping.
8.  It could be the ball ends of the strings are unraveling - I had this happen on recent Fender sets and they stepped up and replaced 'em!

Or, maybe this is your problem
tanglestrings.jpg

 
nop, thats not the way I string it up, but I use my way on different guitars, and they dont have this problem. nice, tight, 2 turns on the peg, no slipping.
 
Which gauge of strings are you using Orpheo?
I've ordered Earvana nut and I'm going to use at least .011 strings.... Anybody knows if I'm going to get trouble?
 
Orpheo said:
nop, thats not the way I string it up, but I use my way on different guitars, and they dont have this problem. nice, tight, 2 turns on the peg, no slipping.

Well instead of your way, try the right way, and see if it helps before you go messin' wif stuff.
 
-CB- said:
Orpheo said:
nop, thats not the way I string it up, but I use my way on different guitars, and they dont have this problem. nice, tight, 2 turns on the peg, no slipping.

Well instead of your way, try the right way, and see if it helps before you go messin' wif stuff.

as I said:I use my way on several guitars, and there are no problems with those guitars. I use a version that some dutch luthiers tought me, so that is not the issue. and that way, I saw on the pics, just got me into more trouble to start with ;)

I think its the nut. I filed it out, just a bit, and it works better. I used on this axe, by the way, 010 gauge.
 
cant argue with the dutch masters I guess...

... speaking of which, its time for a ceeeegar~
 
Nononsense, you should plan on filing the nut slots on the earvana anyways, they're too shallow IMHOP for any gauge.
 
tfarny said:
Nononsense, you should plan on filing the nut slots on the earvana anyways, they're too shallow IMHOP for any gauge.

Like little deep or little wide (the strings holes)? ???
 
Deeper. You'll see what I mean. Maybe it'll be okay for you but I wouldn't count on it.
 
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