glued the neck to guitar body
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Jumble Jumble
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Hendrix said:
The technical problem has been solved. If you want a glued neck, the solution is you use a Gibson- or PRS-like joint.
bagman67
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More to the point, the lap joint used in bolt-necks such as Fenders is wholly unsuitable as a glued joint. There is nothing but the glue to keep someone from torquing the neck out of the pocket when glue is the only thing holding it together - and if you want to supplement the glue with screws for added security, then you don't need the glue in the first place.
The dovetail joint for some set necks counters the issue by providing wood that gets in the way of the neck's tendency to want to pull out of the neck pocket. Alternatively, while there is not a dovetail joint for Gibson electrics, there is the long tenon inserted deep into the body, which gives the same obstacle to over-leveraging the neck out of position (and pulling it to pieces when the glue doesn't want to let go).
Early SG's did not have a long enough tenon to make up for the big chunk that was chopped out of the tenon to accommodate the neck pickup, and so neck joint failures were common. This is not a fault of the set-neck concept, just a flaw in its execution. Later models corrected this flaw, thus allowing the necks to break where they're supposed to - at the headstock!
The dovetail joint for some set necks counters the issue by providing wood that gets in the way of the neck's tendency to want to pull out of the neck pocket. Alternatively, while there is not a dovetail joint for Gibson electrics, there is the long tenon inserted deep into the body, which gives the same obstacle to over-leveraging the neck out of position (and pulling it to pieces when the glue doesn't want to let go).
Early SG's did not have a long enough tenon to make up for the big chunk that was chopped out of the tenon to accommodate the neck pickup, and so neck joint failures were common. This is not a fault of the set-neck concept, just a flaw in its execution. Later models corrected this flaw, thus allowing the necks to break where they're supposed to - at the headstock!
mayfly
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If the point of this is to explore gluing a warmoth neck to a warmoth body, I'll echo other's answers: It will fail over time because the joint is not designed for that. There is not enough glue area on the sides of the pocket and the tenon is not long enough. The force put on the joint will be tension instead of sheer, and the wood will fail. Modern glues are amazing, but it won't stop the wood molecules from ripping apart under tension.
If the point of this is to debate which style is better, the answer really is: who cares. They both are kinda neat and both work well if well done. Speaking of not so well done, I've owned a late 70's Gibson Les Paul that was a real dud. Although it had a glued in neck, it was eaten alive by my buddies Ibanez Les Paul copy with a bolt on neck. I don't think the neck joint hurt it, but it sure didn't help either.
If the point of this is to build a guitar with a glued in neck, Warmoth was the wrong place to start. Check out these guys instead: https://buy.precisionguitarkits.com/
Have fun! If you do glue in that warmoth neck, Please start a thread on it! :headbang:
If the point of this is to debate which style is better, the answer really is: who cares. They both are kinda neat and both work well if well done. Speaking of not so well done, I've owned a late 70's Gibson Les Paul that was a real dud. Although it had a glued in neck, it was eaten alive by my buddies Ibanez Les Paul copy with a bolt on neck. I don't think the neck joint hurt it, but it sure didn't help either.
If the point of this is to build a guitar with a glued in neck, Warmoth was the wrong place to start. Check out these guys instead: https://buy.precisionguitarkits.com/
Have fun! If you do glue in that warmoth neck, Please start a thread on it! :headbang:
line6man
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Hendrix said:
No it can't. The geometry is all wrong for a set neck. Look at the neck heel and pocket designs for set necks, and see how they compare to Fender style bolt on designs. Usually there is a much greater surface area, and a tighter tolerance to the dimensions of the parts being glued, so as to minimize gaps. It's very common to find deeper and longer heels. This is not just for the transfer of vibration, but to strengthen the glue joint.
Mayfly said:
Yes!! And please if you decide to glue it in, assemble it normally first with screws and a neck plate, get it totally set up, then record yourself playing it. Then do the same exact recording (playing the same thing, same equipment, etc) after you've glued it in and compare the samples in a blind test.
I've tried gluing a bolt on neck to a bolt on body a long time ago, it was some $70 Samick I bought at a pawn shop. I used one of the tightbond glues, and kept the screw on. Played fine after a few months, but at the time I was a nut job on stage, and as I was doing my thang, the neck just split right at the joint. Had my backup at the time so it was ok.
As far as the joints are concerned, as I got older and half a smidge smarter, the bolt on joint doesn't have the surface area to mak sure it's stable...even if you screw it in.
Tone wise, didn't care much because it was a crappy guitar with crappy pickups I used for loud obnoxious amounts of distortion.
I don't recommend gluing the neck.
As far as the joints are concerned, as I got older and half a smidge smarter, the bolt on joint doesn't have the surface area to mak sure it's stable...even if you screw it in.
Tone wise, didn't care much because it was a crappy guitar with crappy pickups I used for loud obnoxious amounts of distortion.
I don't recommend gluing the neck.
Hendrix
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talk about Stradivarius, his violin is the most expensive music instruments , proven its holy grail of craftsmanship .
Even after the most convenient method of modern instrumental analysis by the most professional scientist, none can duplicate it.
http://www.rsc.org/education/EiC/issues/2005July/violins.asp
http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/society_culture/fiddling_around_the_lab.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/violin
key secret recipes is on it's varnishing and glue joint .
that mean , if two Guitar has same pickups and wood etc, the difference between a great music instruments and a poor one, is how well their wood joint together and how good they finishing is.
Even after the most convenient method of modern instrumental analysis by the most professional scientist, none can duplicate it.
http://www.rsc.org/education/EiC/issues/2005July/violins.asp
http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/society_culture/fiddling_around_the_lab.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/violin
key secret recipes is on it's varnishing and glue joint .
that mean , if two Guitar has same pickups and wood etc, the difference between a great music instruments and a poor one, is how well their wood joint together and how good they finishing is.
bagman67
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You're generalizing from an inappropriate instance, Hendrix.
The violin - any violin, not just a Strad - is a completely different instrument from an electric guitar, and the mechanism whereby its sound is amplified is completely different as well. The violin's sound comes from the vibration of a string under tension, and the sympathetic vibration of the top of the instrument. Likewise with acoustic guitars. The sound is focused by the sound holes and/or the carved profile of the top; and the volume is also affected by these. The electric guitar's sound comes from the string under tension vibrating within the field of a magnet, which generates an electrical signal that is amplified and emitted through a loudspeaker.
I grant that some of the factors you point out are appropriate in a discussion of tone qualities when one is discussing acoustic guitars, but acoustic guitars have much more in common with fiddles than with electric guitars when it comes to how the sound is propagated to the hearer. Without belaboring the point I've already made, the kind of neck joint is of negligible importance, as long as the quality of the joint is sound. And I defy anyone to honestly tell me they can hear the difference between a thin finish and a thick one on a solid-body electric guitar.
Further, if scientists have been unable to replicate the Stradivarius magic, how can one categorically state that the magic is in the varnish and the neck-to-body joint? There have been all manner of studies done on the provenance of the wood he and his apprentices used, the varnishes, carving and joinery techniques, etc., etc., etc. - and while theories abound, I am unaware of anyone having pinned the problem down so concisely.
But I'm pissing in the wind here, since it's not clear you have a real question in the first place.
The violin - any violin, not just a Strad - is a completely different instrument from an electric guitar, and the mechanism whereby its sound is amplified is completely different as well. The violin's sound comes from the vibration of a string under tension, and the sympathetic vibration of the top of the instrument. Likewise with acoustic guitars. The sound is focused by the sound holes and/or the carved profile of the top; and the volume is also affected by these. The electric guitar's sound comes from the string under tension vibrating within the field of a magnet, which generates an electrical signal that is amplified and emitted through a loudspeaker.
I grant that some of the factors you point out are appropriate in a discussion of tone qualities when one is discussing acoustic guitars, but acoustic guitars have much more in common with fiddles than with electric guitars when it comes to how the sound is propagated to the hearer. Without belaboring the point I've already made, the kind of neck joint is of negligible importance, as long as the quality of the joint is sound. And I defy anyone to honestly tell me they can hear the difference between a thin finish and a thick one on a solid-body electric guitar.
Further, if scientists have been unable to replicate the Stradivarius magic, how can one categorically state that the magic is in the varnish and the neck-to-body joint? There have been all manner of studies done on the provenance of the wood he and his apprentices used, the varnishes, carving and joinery techniques, etc., etc., etc. - and while theories abound, I am unaware of anyone having pinned the problem down so concisely.
But I'm pissing in the wind here, since it's not clear you have a real question in the first place.
anorakDan
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In reality, Science has pretty convincing evidence to suggest that it was not the glue, nor the varnish nor the technique that lead to the tonal properties of the violins that Stradivarius made. It was the extraordinarily dense hardwoods that grew incredibly slowly during the "Little Ice age." 1550-1850 AD.
Which has nothing to do with the OP. Gluing Warmoth necks is something we all think is a good idea when we first arrive here at Unofficial. It's not. Get over it. We all did.
Which has nothing to do with the OP. Gluing Warmoth necks is something we all think is a good idea when we first arrive here at Unofficial. It's not. Get over it. We all did.
Hendrix said:
And if you have two guitars with identical finishing and neck joints, the difference between a great guitar and a terrible piece of crap could be the fretwork, shoddy hardware, tuners, the nut, etc. Glue joints and finishing mean nothing if the guitar can't intonate correctly or stay in tune.
I have no idea why you're comparing violin construction to electric guitar construction in the first place, they are like apples and oranges. Like Bagman said, they don't even create sound from the same source - one creates it acoustically and the other creates an electrical signal from metal strings.
Hendrix
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Bagman67 said:
I have post 3 link with long references，I not sure you have read it or not. also you don't need to told me the principle theory of violin and guitar, I build my first elect guitar when I was 15 years old , and learn to play violin for a short period .
if someone only think electric guitar string under tension vibrating within the field of a magnet , then if you put same string / hardware / pickup on different electric guitar, it supposed to be sound same , if this true , then electric guitar manufacturer can made guitar body out of metal /plastics／fiberglass ／ plexiglass etc (some experiment guitar has try that) , but I sure you know it not sound same as wood.
The simple reason is that , even with solid body , wood still has interactive sympathetic response with string , you knock on different wood , it sound show different sonic character , this can echo and it's vibrating characteristic will influence how string vibrating on it .
that why Warmoth has a wood chart :
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx
if different wood on solid body not got same sound , then the wood constructional detail has the big influence on tone too, ( like 335 vs LP vs strat vs PRS etc) .
this video can help you visualised it :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbgUMqUMns
alterbridgefan
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Nothing to do with sound. If we want to be cork sniffers, bolt neck and neck through constructions would, in theory, sound better than set neck. But honestly, the string tension placed on a guitar is tremendous. Try sliding your finger between the bridge and the strings and tuning it up - your finger will end up badly lacerated. It's crazy, the amount of force a neck joint has to hold. It would make much more sense, if you want a glued neck, to get a set neck kit or start from scratch. The idea of gluing the neck in is absolutely pointless.
So if it loses function, form, and possibly TONZ, here's a good question...
Why the fluck do you want to do this???
So if it loses function, form, and possibly TONZ, here's a good question...
Why the fluck do you want to do this???
stratamania
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Hendrix, it may be that something is missing in translation, but what are you trying to tell us or ask us ?
Strat Avenger
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This is a funny thread. If you wanna put glue on your bolt-on guitar, go ahead.
Mine will just sound better than yours.
Mine will just sound better than yours.
This is really the proper course - we should not dis-courage Mr. Hendrix from slobbering glue anywhere he wants, rather, en-courage it!
Glue for Breakfast,
Glue in Bed
Glue on yer Geetar,
glue on yer Head!
- to be sung to the tune of Beethoven's Fur Elise -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAsDLGjMhFI
(not FOR Elise, or FURRY Elise, or any of them other ones....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnc4T26NslA
You wouldn't want to tell Napoleon NOT to invade Russia, or tell Adm. Yamamoto that maybe Pearl Harbor wasn't such a swell idea...? :dontknow:
"Heck, any tiger is no more than a big ol' kitten..." - Siegfried & Roy, 2002
http://www.wikihow.com/Survive-a-Tiger-Attack
Glue for Breakfast,
Glue in Bed
Glue on yer Geetar,
glue on yer Head!
- to be sung to the tune of Beethoven's Fur Elise -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAsDLGjMhFI
(not FOR Elise, or FURRY Elise, or any of them other ones....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnc4T26NslA
You wouldn't want to tell Napoleon NOT to invade Russia, or tell Adm. Yamamoto that maybe Pearl Harbor wasn't such a swell idea...? :dontknow:
"Heck, any tiger is no more than a big ol' kitten..." - Siegfried & Roy, 2002
http://www.wikihow.com/Survive-a-Tiger-Attack
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