Floyd nut shelf cut too low

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
176
I recently ordered a neck with the R4 prep with holes. Upon stringing up the guitar, it turned out the floyd nut was way too low. Should I have expected shims would be necessary or is this not normal?
 

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Mx481james

Active member
Messages
69
There used to be shims available . I actually remember a Floyd Rose kit that I saw  had shims in the package.
I have 10 warmoth necks all in the last year . There all 24 3/4 conversion necks , nut 1 11/16  , all fender type nut slot . Funny thing is most are the same but a few are cut much deeper ,,, ?
 

Mx481james

Active member
Messages
69
Just to touch on fitting warmth stuff together . We have to adjust and set up for all the variables. I just started putting together a body with a Gibson style bridge . Bridges purchased with the body from warmoth but still needs to be reamed out to fit the posts. Machine heads from them on there necks and always have to  ream to fit
None of us are building guitars here we're assembling guitars but it still takes a degree of skill and knowledge.
 

dsn716

Active member
Messages
39
I have ordered several Warmoth necks with FR nut shelves cut. I have ordered necks this way from other companies as well. They ALL needed a nut shim, sometimes two shims. I only use original FR R2 nuts (not the 1000 series or the Special series). But, there are so many on the market from FR and others, and there are slight variations from one to another. I guess it is better to cut the shelf deep, and have to shim the nut up, then to cut it shallow, and have the end user return the neck to have it cut deeper, if the nut they are using requires it.
The shims cost $2.00. You can get them at Sweetwater, and other online retailers.
 

War_in_D

Senior member
Messages
236
What size Floyd Rose nut are you using?  I could be wrong but I seem to remember this coming up before and IIRC.. Even through the R3 and R4 are the same width (albeit, different string spacing), the overall height of the nut may be different.  Not sure which way it went, but it's possible that if you requested an R4 nut prep, but are using an R3 nut, that could be causing your problem.  I'm sure someone else will come along that knows for sure.
 

War_in_D

Senior member
Messages
236
Also, meant to add.. that as far as shims go.  It's pretty rare to find one that is dead on and doesn't need shimmed in some respect.  Instead of buying those pre-made shims from places like Stewmac, Sweetwater, etc.  I buy one of those really cheap feeler gauge sets and just make my own from those.  A little trimming, drill a couple of holes and I'm done.  Plus, if you know the height you that need to raise the nut in whatever increments the feeler guage set is in, then it's easy/peasy.  Just pick the feeler guage that matches the height you need and you're golden.  :eek:ccasion14:

Something like this is what I'm talking about:


https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-pc-63665.html



 

Phrankenstrat

New member
Messages
9
War_in_D said:
Also, meant to add.. that as far as shims go.  It's pretty rare to find one that is dead on and doesn't need shimmed in some respect.  Instead of buying those pre-made shims from places like Stewmac, Sweetwater, etc.  I buy one of those really cheap feeler gauge sets and just make my own from those.  A little trimming, drill a couple of holes and I'm done.  Plus, if you know the height you that need to raise the nut in whatever increments the feeler guage set is in, then it's easy/peasy.  Just pick the feeler guage that matches the height you need and you're golden.  :eek:ccasion14:

Something like this is what I'm talking about:


https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-pc-63665.html

Great idea! Now why didn't I think of that. Thank you!
 

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
176
War_in_D said:
Also, meant to add.. that as far as shims go.  It's pretty rare to find one that is dead on and doesn't need shimmed in some respect.  Instead of buying those pre-made shims from places like Stewmac, Sweetwater, etc.  I buy one of those really cheap feeler gauge sets and just make my own from those.  A little trimming, drill a couple of holes and I'm done.  Plus, if you know the height you that need to raise the nut in whatever increments the feeler guage set is in, then it's easy/peasy.  Just pick the feeler guage that matches the height you need and you're golden.  :eek:ccasion14:

Something like this is what I'm talking about:


https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-pc-63665.html

That’s actually probably the most precise way of doing it. Excellent idea.
 

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
176
Okay I appreciate the responses. I’m perfectly confident with shimming, I was just wondering if it was expected or usually the nut slot is more precise. Sounds like I’ll get to shimming then haha.
 

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
176
War_in_D said:
What size Floyd Rose nut are you using?  I could be wrong but I seem to remember this coming up before and IIRC.. Even through the R3 and R4 are the same width (albeit, different string spacing), the overall height of the nut may be different.  Not sure which way it went, but it's possible that if you requested an R4 nut prep, but are using an R3 nut, that could be causing your problem.  I'm sure someone else will come along that knows for sure.

I’m using an OFR R4 nut with 6100 frets so if they tend to mill the shelf on the low side to allow for shimming then I’m probably magnifying that with my frets.
 

War_in_D

Senior member
Messages
236
Phrankenstrat said:
Great idea! Now why didn't I think of that. Thank you!

I was needing a shim one day, and didn't have any so I was looking around for something to make a shim out of, and stumbled upon one of those feeler guage thingies.. Necessity is the Mother of Invention (so they say), so I improvised.  Been using them ever since. 
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,451
It may be that with 6100 frets the shelf ends up slightly low compared to what it would with smaller frets. Although should that really be the case.

I do not have a Warmoth neck with a Floyd shelf but do have some with LSR prep, which also with 6100 frets were on the low side and consumed all provided shims. Also at least one forum member has sent back an LSR prep because it was too low.

I could understand that if all shelves or LSR preps are cut to an average for a lower fret that shims may then be needed for higher frets. But and this is emphasised I personally think that nut shelf preparation for Floyds or LSR slot preparation ought to be accurate and suitable for the fret size installed.  If it is taken also into account that neither nut preparation can be ordered for a neck without frets that would imply the shelves or slots are intended to be cut for a particular fret installation. In other words shims should only be needed for fine adjustment if at all not as a requirement to just make a low slot remotely playable.

Both Floyd nuts and LSRs are accurately machined parts and fret wire is generally accurately extruded so the variable can only be the depth the slot or shelf is cut to. If x = the height from the bottom of the nut to the string slot and y the fret height above the fretboard then the depth of the slot should be able to be calculated from those values so that the string slot heights x end up as about  y +  10 thousandths on the treble side and around say 15 thousandths on the bass side.  Personally I would prefer to remove a little wood in the bottom of a slot than having to pack a slot with shims.
 

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
176
stratamania said:
It may be that with 6100 frets the shelf ends up slightly low compared to what it would with smaller frets. Although should that really be the case.

I do not have a Warmoth neck with a Floyd shelf but do have some with LSR prep, which also with 6100 frets were on the low side and consumed all provided shims. Also at least one forum member has sent back an LSR prep because it was too low.

I could understand that if all shelves or LSR preps are cut to an average for a lower fret that shims may then be needed for higher frets. But and this is emphasised I personally think that nut shelf preparation for Floyds or LSR slot preparation ought to be accurate and suitable for the fret size installed.  If it is taken also into account that neither nut preparation can be ordered for a neck without frets that would imply the shelves or slots are intended to be cut for a particular fret installation. In other words shims should only be needed for fine adjustment if at all not as a requirement to just make a low slot remotely playable.

I would also have hoped for this to be the case, but alas, warmoth sales has told me use of a shim is to be expected.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,451
bruzanhd said:
stratamania said:
It may be that with 6100 frets the shelf ends up slightly low compared to what it would with smaller frets. Although should that really be the case.

I do not have a Warmoth neck with a Floyd shelf but do have some with LSR prep, which also with 6100 frets were on the low side and consumed all provided shims. Also at least one forum member has sent back an LSR prep because it was too low.

I could understand that if all shelves or LSR preps are cut to an average for a lower fret that shims may then be needed for higher frets. But and this is emphasised I personally think that nut shelf preparation for Floyds or LSR slot preparation ought to be accurate and suitable for the fret size installed.  If it is taken also into account that neither nut preparation can be ordered for a neck without frets that would imply the shelves or slots are intended to be cut for a particular fret installation. In other words shims should only be needed for fine adjustment if at all not as a requirement to just make a low slot remotely playable.

I would also have hoped for this to be the case, but alas, warmoth sales has told me use of a shim is to be expected.

So it seems each individual nut is not fitted to work with the installed frets but is an average measurement. C'est la vie.
 
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