Financing

[OzziePete]

Over exuberance and a lack of patience is my problem Dangerous. I see the good effects of that carefully applied first (thin) finish, and by the time I get to the 3rd coat or so, I wanna slap it on nice and thick and get the job done!  Oh, and I have only used spray cans or handbrushed can of lacquer, never used a proper spraying kit nor would know how to. :sad1:
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Micahbell, I only replied once and later posts by me here, offered support to my views. I can appreciate you have answered the reservations some of us have about financing, but some of us got onto this Thread later than your reply, and wanted to lend support to the opposing view.

As someone who has previously worked for a finance company and issued a lot of legal process and instructions to lawyers during a recession in Australia post-1987, I have experience in what everyone is about to face worldwide with this larger recession and it isn't going to be pretty. So darn close to a depression rather than a recession, actually (but nobody in public wants to whisper that word for fear of really starting a rush). From that employment experience, I feel I can offer some different insight into the subject of financing and the current world events.

In these times, finance is NOT going to be so forthcoming from the wholesale cash markets anyway, so even if Warmoth were 110% behind the idea, they may not even find a financier to agree to terms.(Financiers themselves are having hard times trying to get access to cash, to support their existing agreements let alone looking to expand into new markets)

Moving on to offer another view, however, it is true that Warmoth has many customers worldwide.

None of their customers from overseas can access any sort of finance arrangement from a US financier, so that also might be a negative aspect of your suggestion, particularly if Warmoth wish to offer a standardised and consistent range of services and products - worldwide - to all customers.

 

[guitlouie]

OK, but what if they offer a payment plan whereby, if you don't pay, Ken and Gregg and some other Warmoth heavys come to your house and smash your kneecaps with guitar necks?

 

[Micahbell]

Micahbell, I only replied once and later posts by me here, offered support to my views. I can appreciate you have answered the reservations some of us have about financing, but some of us got onto this Thread later than your reply, and wanted to lend support to the opposing view.

Even though we caught onto this Thread late, and after your response to the initial reservations, doesn't mean we cannot offer our views on the subject you have raised. It does come across as if you are trying to moderate the thread yourself, if that's the case, and stifle debate.

I am in no way trying to stifle the debate, and if I come across that way I apologize. Having Warmoth offer financing is not something I am dreadfully passionate about, it would be cool, but if others are not supportive that great - that is cool by me.
Coming into the thread on the third page is not that late, it would take a couple min. to read and saves the conversation from going in circles, which would be nice. Exactly what you said was said a few times already, which is fine if you all agree with what they said, but it would be nice to hear "I agree with these people, I read your response and I disagree because..." and go on from there, allowing the conversation to continue, rather then the same thing just being stated, and the same answer being given a bunch of times.
Yes, I am trying to moderate this thread a bit, but not to shut up people who disagree with me, just to keep the discussion going in a productive way.

In these times, finance is NOT going to be so forthcoming from the wholesale cash markets anyway, so even if Warmoth were 110% behind the idea they may not even find a financier to agree to terms.

I can see that as a possibility, but just because you don't think it could happen doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into. If you don't think it should happen for other reasons, that's cool, I respect that, but not looking into it because you don't think it could happen seems silly.
Do I really think I have a chance with that super hot server at work? No. I have tried with other super hot servers and in my experience it just doesn't work. Am I still going to try? You bet your ass I am.

To offer another view, however, it is true that Warmoth has many customers worldwide.

None of their customers from overseas can access any sort of finance arrangement from a US financier, so that also might be a negative aspect of your suggestion, particularly if Warmoth wish to offer a standardised and consistent range of services and products - worldwide - to all customers.

Honestly, I didn't even think of that. Now that I thiknk about it, the company I offered that I have worked with and was great is a Canadian company, I don't even know if Warmoth could go through them. If there was a world wide company they could use, that would be great but it would be quite unfair this was an option only to Americans.

Guitlouie - hmm I do support that, but perhaps it would be most effective if they recruited forum members from around the world to do the dirty deeds for them? If not, them flying around would cost more then the fun it would provide, IMHO.

 

[OzziePete]

OK, but what if they offer a payment plan whereby, if you don't pay, Ken and Gregg and some other Warmoth heavys come to your house and smash your kneecaps with guitar necks?

OUCH!! Or maybe give Dangerous some out of town work?  :evil4:

 

[OzziePete]

Micahbell,

I read the first few lines of most of the previous posts, will admit ot not reading all posts all the way through.

Yes, I knew I was repeating what others had said, but as I have later said, my views come from having to collect from folks caught out in a recession with financial commitments and no money and saw first hand the duress all that caused. And I wanted to say it was something that in these times, was maybe not so appropriate for a business to look at. It's all about timing rather than whether the suggestion is 'good' or bad'.

By your comments about the hot server, I take it that you offer the view of trying to progress a business and making efforts to increase it's market share and making decisions to strive on. But realistically, the whole world of finance has been shook up a hell of a lot in recent times, and I'm not assuming that what may have been a decent business proposition to a financier 3 - 6 months ago, is now going to be viewed the same way. As this is typed, I am pretty sure that there is lending criteria being rewritten to a more conservative level in banks and other lending institutions throughout the world.

You are right that businesses should keep their options open and keep their eyes out for opportunities, as now is a time where some businesses will take a jump and make very good out it.

For example, if you happen to have a keen eye for the sharemarket, you would be aware of some real bargains right now, so long as the businesses you buy into are going to survive this worldwide recession. And when markets rise, you will be in the box seat for some handsome returns.

 

[Micahbell]

Yes, I knew I was repeating what others had said, but as I have later said, my views come from having to collect from folks caught out in a recession with financial commitments and no money and saw first hand the duress all that caused. And I wanted to say it was something that in these times, was maybe not so appropriate for a business to look at. It's all about timing rather than whether the suggestion is 'good' or bad'.

Ok, I that makes sense to me. Sorry, I didn't get that from your first post.

By your comments about the hot server, I take it that you offer the view of trying to progress a business and making efforts to increase it's market share and making decisions to strive on. But realistically, the whole world of finance has been shook up a hell of a lot in recent times, and I'm not assuming that what may have been a decent business proposition to a financier 3 - 6 months ago, is now going to be viewed the same way. As this is typed, I am pretty sure that there is lending criteria being rewritten to a more conservative level in banks and other lending institutions throughout the world.

Nope, that isn't what I meant. I just meant that it seemed like you were saying that you thought it wouldn't happen so the big W shouldn't waste their time on trying.
But, through this post I see what you mean. Honestly, I don't know anything at all about world finance. I am 19 years old, living pay cheque to pay cheque, constantly working double shifts and in my time off I try to keep my mind clear from things and don't really follow too much news. I am aware of all the current economic troubles, but do not fully understand what they all mean.
After you elaborated in this post, I understand what you meant and see why this option isn't likely to happen right now.
thanks for the post

 

[tfcreative]

I am 19 years old, living pay cheque to pay cheque, constantly working double shifts and in my time off I try to keep my mind clear from things and don't really follow too much news.

Ok, this is exactly my core objection to this type of idea. The reason that this sounds good to you is because you are a child and you want your toy now without waiting. I'm sure that the opportunity for a lucky grab in the showcase WILL pass you by, but you are missing a key element of luck: you lack the preparedness to act on the opportunity. Therefore that lucky grab is not lucky to you, only to someone else.

A quick lesson on credit: when you extend credit for a purchase, you make a presumption that you will be able to pay in time, that your circumstances will remain the same or better. In some cases, such as homes or vehicles, this is largely unavoidable, but when properly handled can keep you from becoming upside down. Consumer debt is a whole different story. The moment you buy parts from Warmoth, they are worth less than you paid. Look around on eBay; really nice guitars and basses go for less than the price of their parts, because the person who assembled the guitar is unknown. This is likely not just but it is a fact. If something happens to one of your two jobs (which it likely will if taxes go up) and you can no longer pay the financing, not only is the bank screwed because at best they get back a guitar that is essentially worthless to them, but you are screwed because your credit is ruined for years because you wanted a guitar.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you need to learn to wait. Ultimately the prize will be sweeter and you will sleep better.

 

[NeilStryker]

Yah! everyone here knows how credit works, hooray for us!    Live and let live, man.  It seems like the original suggestion was based on a legit interest in finding a responsible way of buying something and making payments at a lower interest rate than that which is offered by most credit cards.  He's not going crazy with a Guitar Center card at 21%.  He didn't cause this economic crisis. 

 

[tfcreative]

BTW, I can actually envision a scenario where this is not good for Warmoth. As we all know, building is addictive; this fact has provided Warmoth with a steady stream of repeat customers and referral business. If financing became readily available, there would be some (not nearly all) who would likely not be able to control their impulses and buy more than they would normally be able to. Ultimately, however this would catch up to them, leaving them with few financial alternatives but to sell off unused parts and try to dig out. If this happens in any sizable trend, the following four things could be experienced by Warmoth:

1 - Sudden surge in demand, requiring painful rapid upscaling that is harmful to any business.
2 - Resulting decline in business as credit runs out, leaving new capacity unused.
3 - Market flooded with existing parts being sold, further lowering demand.
4 - Referral customers reduced because building doesn't look as sexy when it jacks up someone's finances.

This is classic cutting the goose open to get out the golden eggs. All you do is kill the goose, which would have laid a steady supply had you simply been patient. The market is replete with examples.

 

[tfcreative]

Yah! everyone here knows how credit works, hooray for us!    Live and let live, man.   It seems like the original suggestion was based on a legit interest in finding a responsible way of buying something and making payments at a lower interest rate than that which is offered by most credit cards.   He's not going crazy with a Guitar Center card at 21%.   He didn't cause this economic crisis.   

If people knew how credit works, then average consumer debt in the US would not be close to $20,000. Clearly people do not understand the long-term implications.

As a matter of explanation, I am not in favor of not allowing credit. People should make mistakes, pay for them, and learn from them. In general the free market will work itself out if it is not tampered with. Another thing that can be learned from is the experience of others and the examples of history. You seem to think that I am coming down on the OP personally, when in reality I am simply further explaining my position. My only other post in this thread was early on and was very terse. He got to flesh out his ideas, so I'm fleshing out mine. There is no personal insult meant in pointing out the inexperience of youth or the dangerous nature of credit vs. delayed gratification, only a desire to help him learn the lesson on someone else's dime rather than his own. "Live and let live" doesn't apply if you see someone drowning in a lake, does it? Why not try to help him not make mistakes with the money that he clearly works so hard for?

 

[kreig]

Just a cash customer here ! :icon_thumright:

where is the plug I can pull on this thread?