fender contour heel
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Patrick from Davis
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The fine tuner for the truss rod is in the way on the Warmoth Pro necks.
Patrick
Patrick
Ace Flibble
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But it's a more effective design than Warmoth's contoured heel. I can really feel the difference playing on the high frets on a Fender American Deluxe guitar with that heel. On my Warmoth with its contoured heel I'm buggered if it plays any better higher up than the normal heel.
Of course, both of them fall on their arse in comparison to ESP's contoured bolt-on heel, which has both the corner cut off (Fender style) and is slanted down (Warmoth style), and which is offered even on their lowest-cost Strat and Tele copies. Makes you wonder why the corner cut-off heel isn't a standard feature on all Fenders.
Of course, both of them fall on their arse in comparison to ESP's contoured bolt-on heel, which has both the corner cut off (Fender style) and is slanted down (Warmoth style), and which is offered even on their lowest-cost Strat and Tele copies. Makes you wonder why the corner cut-off heel isn't a standard feature on all Fenders.
I find the fine tuner to be a more disposable idea, on a neck that's only going to need adjustment maybe 3 or 4 times in it's entire life unless you do a lot of radical string-gauge changes. I wish it were optional, so I didn't have to order left or vintage necks. There is nothing good that can come of vibration transmission with a little thing made of 8 or 10 different pieces of metal at different angles and densities at the end if the trussrod. Warmoth has to know it's costing them sales - over at TDPRI, it's the first thing that's even mentioned about Warmoth necks - but they can't back off a decision that affects so many of the necks already out there.
As to why Fender doesn't offer the cutback on all their models, where there's seemingly no change in cost to one or the other - they have to have some reason to extract more for the premium line, right? :evil4:
Otherwise, people would just pick out a Squier with decent wood and upgrade the pickups and tuners, right? :evil4:
As to why Fender doesn't offer the cutback on all their models, where there's seemingly no change in cost to one or the other - they have to have some reason to extract more for the premium line, right? :evil4:
Otherwise, people would just pick out a Squier with decent wood and upgrade the pickups and tuners, right? :evil4:
Ace Flibble
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The side adjust is definitely something Warmoth should just do away with. It can only increase production cost and time and it offers absolutely zero benefit. Screws up people with Fender-style contoured heels, adds nothing to the tone, adds nothing in the way of functionality and it looks crap. I've built a number of all-Warmoth guitars and I have a few 'halfmoths' with Warmoth bodies - don't get me wrong, I do love Warmoth's products most of the time - but for my next two builds I want 24.75" conversion necks and I'm turning to Musikraft for these just so I can have that scale without the bloody side adjust (and as it so happens one of them is getting the ESP-style contoured heel).
Ditch the side adjusts and use the ESP-style contoured heel and I'd use nothing but 100% Warmoth guitars for the rest of time.
Ditch the side adjusts and use the ESP-style contoured heel and I'd use nothing but 100% Warmoth guitars for the rest of time.
Cagey
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Mayfly said:
You and me, both. I think it's great. You can adjust the neck to perfection while it's off the body, but until it's installed and has string tension on it you don't know that it's right or that you're going to be happy. So, the ability to easily change the relief is welcome. The total vintage style construction is a total pain in the ass, and the modern vintage forces you to play games with covers - who needs that noise? The side adjust isn't noticeable to anyone who isn't a rabid guitar aficionado, so that's not a valid critique.
I will say this, though: that dual-action truss rod in the "pro" style neck is a wonderful thing. Makes the neck remarkably stable. But, it does add weight, and noticeably so. If one is sensitive to hanging weight, that's something to consider, especially if you're going to put locking tuners on it.
Strat Avenger
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line6man said:
The Fender countoured heel design always looked to me like someone took a belt sander to their guitar, screwed up and then did their best to fix it. It's a crappy design. :dontknow:
It's not a "crappy design" at all. It is very effective, and looks good too. That corner is the biggest offender when it comes to comfort; it's the part that digs into the palm of your hand when reaching for the uppermost frets. Smooth that down and you still have all the strength of the traditional heel, along with the added comfort.
I wish Warmoth would offer it as an option, as not everyone uses the "Pro" neck construction. In fact my next two builds will be the Vintage-Modern construction.
Strat Avenger
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Ace Flibble said:
+1
line6man
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Street Avenger said:line6man said:
The Fender countoured heel design always looked to me like someone took a belt sander to their guitar, screwed up and then did their best to fix it. It's a crappy design. :dontknow:
It's not a "crappy design" at all. It is very effective, and looks good too. That corner is the biggest offender when it comes to comfort; it's the part that digs into the palm of your hand when reaching for the uppermost frets. Smooth that down and you still have all the strength of the traditional heel, along with the added comfort.
I wish Warmoth would offer it as an option, as not everyone uses the "Pro" neck construction. In fact my next two builds will be the Vintage-Modern construction.
It's subjective. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Personally, I think it looks utterly ridiculous, and it's a half-assed attempt to contour the heel. Since you're changing the screw pattern and using a different neckplate, why not redesign the neck joint entirely? Warmoth is limited by what remains compatible with a standard Fender neck pocket and heel, but Fender obviously is not limiting themselves to the way Leo did it 60+ years ago. There are better ways to contour a heel.
Cagey
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That's a good point. Warmoth is making replacement parts, not guitars. I'm sure if they wanted to make complete and original guitars and basses, they'd have some exemplary offerings as they're clearly quite good at manufacturing. If Fender comes up with something goofy, who cares? If it bugs anyone too much, maybe they shouldn't buy it. Dollars are the best votes in the world. Lack of them has been known to teach lessons.
Well, that's kind of my point - the side adjuster is the single best sales tool USA Custom, Musikraft, Allparts & Guitar Mill have for their products, and they don't even have to point it out - people have it figured themselves! And since Warmoth is able to route out trussrod channels without it quite handily, it wouldn't be much of an "option" to leave it off (for the same price). I would like to be able to get Warmoth's double rod (adjuster-free) in their boatneck - as I did the last time by ordering "left-handed" - but to get that same neck, right-handed, can't be done.
Ah well, there's room for more than one company in the race, but considering that the Gotoh side adjuster is available as a separate product to anyone who wants it - how many of the really high-end $4,000, $6,000, $10,000 guitars are going out with one in them? Warmoth's double rod eliminates the need for that adjuster, because it's so stable - it's redundant. And the hand-crafted high-end guitars are using LMII's, Stew-Mac's or Warmoth's double truss rods.... If anything, the necks that need it are their single rod ones, but then they'd really throw their sales off the roof.
(I'd still like threaded inserts! How dim is that.....) :evil4:
Ah well, there's room for more than one company in the race, but considering that the Gotoh side adjuster is available as a separate product to anyone who wants it - how many of the really high-end $4,000, $6,000, $10,000 guitars are going out with one in them? Warmoth's double rod eliminates the need for that adjuster, because it's so stable - it's redundant. And the hand-crafted high-end guitars are using LMII's, Stew-Mac's or Warmoth's double truss rods.... If anything, the necks that need it are their single rod ones, but then they'd really throw their sales off the roof.
(I'd still like threaded inserts! How dim is that.....) :evil4:
Cagey
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Also good points.
I just got a neck in here to be dressed up nice that's made of Birdseye Maple and Rosewood with a somewhat traditional truss rod (vintage modern). Nice piece, and light. I mean, I've had hamburgers that weigh more than this neck does. But, I wonder how stable it's going to be. A dual truss rod with locking tuners is rock-solid, but you add almost a pound to the thing doing that. So, there are trade-offs.
Speaking of threaded inserts...
I finally got the appropriate tap (5/16"-18 bottoming) for the SS inserts I've been using, and it's a wonderful thing. Makes for a very clean and easy installation. No blistering, no wondering if you're about to split the wood along the grain, etc. Still tight as a young nun, so no worries.
I just got a neck in here to be dressed up nice that's made of Birdseye Maple and Rosewood with a somewhat traditional truss rod (vintage modern). Nice piece, and light. I mean, I've had hamburgers that weigh more than this neck does. But, I wonder how stable it's going to be. A dual truss rod with locking tuners is rock-solid, but you add almost a pound to the thing doing that. So, there are trade-offs.
Speaking of threaded inserts...
I finally got the appropriate tap (5/16"-18 bottoming) for the SS inserts I've been using, and it's a wonderful thing. Makes for a very clean and easy installation. No blistering, no wondering if you're about to split the wood along the grain, etc. Still tight as a young nun, so no worries.
I found the inserts at, of all places, Amazon.com. $12.50 for 10, which is just a tiny bit high - but X2 gets you the $25 free shipping, beats a wrassle on the Interstate with monster trucks, crackhead housewives, steroidally-suicidal goombahs and whatever else the Baltimore/Washington cesspool is exuding these days. These guys:
http://www.amazon.com/E-Z-LOK-Thin-Wall-Threaded-Insert/dp/B002WC8SX0/ref=pd_ybh_6
(now discounted so you don't get free shipping, you'd have to buy a comic book too.
)
http://www.amazon.com/E-Z-LOK-Thin-Wall-Threaded-Insert/dp/B002WC8SX0/ref=pd_ybh_6
(now discounted so you don't get free shipping, you'd have to buy a comic book too.
)>but for my next two builds I want 24.75" conversion necks and I'm turning to Musikraft for these
i am not sure if musikraft offer gibson scale conversion necks.
i find the warmoth pro necks to be heavy and less resonant.
so i let go of the three warmoth conversion necks i had and bought conversion necks by usacg. but in comparison, i find warmoth neck profile more comfortable to play. so wish warmoth would offer pro necks without that double truss rod.
and regarding the contour heel, i am yet to receive any feedback about physically modifying a standard strat heel to the contour heel a la fender. any views on that?
i am not sure if musikraft offer gibson scale conversion necks.
i find the warmoth pro necks to be heavy and less resonant.
so i let go of the three warmoth conversion necks i had and bought conversion necks by usacg. but in comparison, i find warmoth neck profile more comfortable to play. so wish warmoth would offer pro necks without that double truss rod.
and regarding the contour heel, i am yet to receive any feedback about physically modifying a standard strat heel to the contour heel a la fender. any views on that?
Cagey
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AutoBat said:
That's not an opinion, it's a fact. And they don't call them "pro" necks when they do that, they call them either "total vintage" or "vintage modern". You're right, though, in that they're lighter. Whaddaya expect? There's a whole 18 inches or so of steel rod missing, plus the more bulky end pieces you don't need.
But, I gotta say the dual truss rod makes for an incredibly stable neck. Set it and forget it. I've had necks here that lived through daily changes in temperature and humidity as much as 30 or 40 points, and they just laugh at it. Rock solid. So, I tolerate the extra weight. It's worth it. Once a guitar's built, I never want to work on it again. I just wanna have fun.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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Another which contoured heel thread. :rock-on:
Don't like the Fender one. Nothing about it looks thought out. Don't like the Warmoth one either. Something about having the wood where the neck attaches to the body not be the thinnest place on the body and the front 2 bolts being the most important bolts, IDK. Compound all that with Yngvie Fatsteem, OCD Johnson seem to wear out 21st frets with no kind of contoured heel. We're all making sacrifices here. Paul Gilbert, when given the choice, has Ibanez make his neck joints bigger. What do they know that we don't?
Don't like the Fender one. Nothing about it looks thought out. Don't like the Warmoth one either. Something about having the wood where the neck attaches to the body not be the thinnest place on the body and the front 2 bolts being the most important bolts, IDK. Compound all that with Yngvie Fatsteem, OCD Johnson seem to wear out 21st frets with no kind of contoured heel. We're all making sacrifices here. Paul Gilbert, when given the choice, has Ibanez make his neck joints bigger. What do they know that we don't?
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