fender contour heel

[Rickgrxbass]

The McDonald brothers & Ransom Eli Olds both went back into the industry in which they sold their namesakes. Ransom sold his name as Oldsmobile, his most famous post model was the REO Speedwagon (yes, it was a real automobile)

Difference is, the McDonald brothers (why did I think that was a portmanteau of their names, and their name wasn't McDonald?) never went off and started another company...

Also, CSB, my uncle went to high school with Kevin Cronin from REO Speedwagon...

 

[AutoBat]

The McDonald brothers & Ransom Eli Olds both went back into the industry in which they sold their namesakes. Ransom sold his name as Oldsmobile, his most famous post model was the REO Speedwagon (yes, it was a real automobile)

Difference is, the McDonald brothers (why did I think that was a portmanteau of their names, and their name wasn't McDonald?) never went off and started another company...

Also, CSB, my uncle went to high school with Kevin Cronin from REO Speedwagon...

Although Ray Kroc's business deal with the McDonald brothers started swimmingly, relations soon soured.
At first, Kroc just wanted to sell as many Multimixers as possible. But by 1961, he bought the entire business for $2.7 million.
When they gave up rights to the McDonald's name, Dick and Mac reopened their original San Bernardino hamburger joint as The Big M.
Kroc, upset over the brothers' refusal to relinquish the original restaurant, opened up a McDonald's restaurant nearby. The Big M was run out of business.­
- source: http://money.howstuffworks.com/mcdonalds1.htm

 

[Orpheo]

any guitar that's based upon a fender, with alder, maple and rosewood should never, ever EVER be over 1.5k. NEVER. alder and maple are dirt cheap, rosewood a bit less cheap. it's because people want a name, or want it to be super-vintage spec'd that they pay premium price, but is it worth it?! no way. a warmoth strat with the same woods, lightweight singlepiece alder with a quartersawn maple neck with a nice rosewood, ziricote or kingwood board, with the same thinskin nitro and pickups would be less than 1k if you do it will.

 

[stubhead]

Not if you buy $900 silver pickups from Seymour, a $329 titanium tremolo block...

 

[Ace Flibble]

any guitar that's based upon a fender, with alder, maple and rosewood should never, ever EVER be over 1.5k. NEVER. alder and maple are dirt cheap, rosewood a bit less cheap. it's because people want a name, or want it to be super-vintage spec'd that they pay premium price, but is it worth it?! no way. a warmoth strat with the same woods, lightweight singlepiece alder with a quartersawn maple neck with a nice rosewood, ziricote or kingwood board, with the same thinskin nitro and pickups would be less than 1k if you do it will.

Don't forget that with things like FCS Master Builder models most of your money is going on the builder. People who have 20, 30 years experience building high-end guitars don't come cheap, and you're getting their undivided attention. Hey, if you want a total hack to put the same materials together then you're going to be paying a lot less.

I object to pissing away money for no reason, same as anyone else, but I respect why the ''overpriced'' guitars cost what they do. It's not 1952 any more, having something built by hand by someone who really knows what they're doing is going to come at a premium, and deservedly so.

Trust me, pick up a few Fender Custom Shop guitars, pick up a Gibson CS model, browse some ESP Custom Shops or get your hands on a PRS Private Stock. Once you feel one of those in action you quickly stop caring about the price tag.

 

[Strat Avenger]

any guitar that's based upon a fender, with alder, maple and rosewood should never, ever EVER be over 1.5k. NEVER. alder and maple are dirt cheap, rosewood a bit less cheap. it's because people want a name, or want it to be super-vintage spec'd that they pay premium price, but is it worth it?! no way. a warmoth strat with the same woods, lightweight singlepiece alder with a quartersawn maple neck with a nice rosewood, ziricote or kingwood board, with the same thinskin nitro and pickups would be less than 1k if you do it will.

I agree, and the idea that "hands" do a better quality job than a CNC is simply ludicrous. I get really tired of hearing about "hand-built" this and "hand-built" that. If anything, hand-built things are less consistent, and yet the price triples or quadruples.

 

[stubhead]

:dontknow:

http://wildwestguitars.com/Cruz/dis-prod_630_standard.html

peep.

 

[Cagey]

That's nice.

I'm struck by the idea I've been charging far too little for my work.

 

[stubhead]

There's a reason that the top guys in Nashville, LA and NY can charge what they do for a "final" fret job on a guitar that been stretched out for a year or so - and it has a lot to do with the cost of living in those places. Everywhere else, it's about half or so. The way I do it for myself is so ludicrously slow I can't imagine what it would add up to if I "paid" myself even $20 hr. In the (lovely, stunning, gotta read) book "Clapton's Guitar" by Allen St. John, he interviews George Gruhn. He made the point that "repairmen" need to be totally nameless - you want to think that they have restored your old Martin back to 1937 factory specs, not "added a bit of yourself" to everything you touch. And for luthiers, the exact same opposite is true. Gruhn was speaking about the large number of people who have cycled through his shop as repairmen, and after they learned exactly what was inside of those Martins and D'Angelicos they went on to make their own. (Gruhn hates new guitars, for transparent reasons).

What the bear will market will....

 

[Cagey]

All good points. But, then I look at that Strat which, while certainly well-done, is not really too far off the beaten path and they're asking $7,700? That's just nuts, even by California standards.

 

[stubhead]

But the trial lawyer need something to pluck on in his private jet while he flies to Paris for lunch because the periwinkle season is at it's peak. I've cooked for these people - and they are not like you and I, fer shur.

 

[Rickgrxbass]

But the trial lawyer need something to pluck on in his private jet while he flies to Paris for lunch because the periwinkle season is at it's peak. I've cooked for these people - and they are not like you and I, fer shur.

"Those" people never play the damned things. They're just pretty pieces of wood with bits of metal stuck in them. It'll end up in a wall case in their discotheque or cocktail lounge or whatever.

 

[Ace Flibble]

I agree, and the idea that "hands" do a better quality job than a CNC is simply ludicrous. I get really tired of hearing about "hand-built" this and "hand-built" that. If anything, hand-built things are less consistent, and yet the price triples or quadruples.

Objective quality and consistency don't come in to it. If consistency is what you value most then count yourself lucky that so many hundreds of mass-produced, identical guitars get knocked out of factories every week.

I mean hell, if all that mattered was pre-defined precision then we'd all be playing Line 6 Variax guitars and PRS would be bankrupt.

You're not paying for the precision a builder may or may not bring. Obviously, nobody is going to be as consistent as a CNC machine. But there's a lot to be said for having a very experienced builder handling a guitar every step of the way.

I say this as someone who's own guitar collection mostly consists of CNC'd, mass produced guitars but also spends most of his time handling modern custom shop and real vintage guitars: mass production is great for getting decent-playing instruments in the hands of everybody, but they are nothing compared to the works of art the big custom shops put out and those in turn are absolutely nothing on a real 1957 Strat, a real 1960s Les Paul or a 1960s Rickenbacker. And none of those were made by a drill bit attached to a computer. I spend all day handling all manner of guitars from the lowest brand new Squier to the instruments dreams are made of and without fail the guitars made by hand by experienced luthiers are always - always - better-sounding and better-feeling than the equivalent model churned out by machine.

That's not to say I don't value my production guitars either - hell, my main stage axes are an all-Warmoth build, a MIK Epiphone and a MIK LTD - but to write off expertly-built instruments as being worth less is just crazy.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I agree, and the idea that "hands" do a better quality job than a CNC is simply ludicrous. I get really tired of hearing about "hand-built" this and "hand-built" that. If anything, hand-built things are less consistent, and yet the price triples or quadruples.

Objective quality and consistency don't come in to it. If consistency is what you value most then count yourself lucky that so many hundreds of mass-produced, identical guitars get knocked out of factories every week.

I mean hell, if all that mattered was pre-defined precision then we'd all be playing Line 6 Variax guitars and PRS would be bankrupt.

You're not paying for the precision a builder may or may not bring. Obviously, nobody is going to be as consistent as a CNC machine. But there's a lot to be said for having a very experienced builder handling a guitar every step of the way.

I say this as someone who's own guitar collection mostly consists of CNC'd, mass produced guitars but also spends most of his time handling modern custom shop and real vintage guitars: mass production is great for getting decent-playing instruments in the hands of everybody, but they are nothing compared to the works of art the big custom shops put out and those in turn are absolutely nothing on a real 1957 Strat, a real 1960s Les Paul or a 1960s Rickenbacker. And none of those were made by a drill bit attached to a computer. I spend all day handling all manner of guitars from the lowest brand new Squier to the instruments dreams are made of and without fail the guitars made by hand by experienced luthiers are always - always - better-sounding and better-feeling than the equivalent model churned out by machine.

That's not to say I don't value my production guitars either - hell, my main stage axes are an all-Warmoth build, a MIK Epiphone and a MIK LTD - but to write off expertly-built instruments as being worth less is just crazy.

I don't "write (them) off".  They're just not worth that much money, that's all. They don't sound better because of being "hand-made". They sound better because of premium material selection and components. A CNC'd guitar would sound every bit as good if the same care were taken in material selection, but of course that is not practical for mass-produced guitars.

I don't subscribe to the notion that something "hand-built" has some sort of magical mojo that a CNC-cut body & neck doesn't have. If it were built with my own hands, it would have a lot more sentimental value to me, but built by some stranger's hands really doesn't justify the price for me -- and yes, there are those who will pay the price, which is why they sell.