Ernie Ball Injunction against Earvana nuts.

[elfro89]

This annoys me, Ernie ball always seems to block things instead of finding compromise, I'm sure there is a way they could turn it into something profitable for both companies, I don't see them offering compensated nuts. This injunction has made me loose all respect for Ernie Ball, now there seems to be no alternatives.

This annoys me greatly.

 

[Strat Avenger]

This is old news. Isn't Earvana still in business?  I thought it simply means that they must pay Ernie Ball royalties.

 

[elfro89]

This is old news. Isn't Earvana still in business?  I thought it simply means that they must pay Ernie Ball royalties.

No, an injunction is when they must stop whatever it is they were doing; in this case making nuts.

 

[pabloman]

Earvana infringed on a patent. How can you fault Ernie Ball. Sure they could have comprimised but why should they have to? Their design was stolen. Seems fair to me.

 

[Kaoskadosk]

This happens all the time, all over the world. You would have a major headache if you would even attempt to analyze all the patent infringements and lawsuits in the electronics business.

This is just a sample of it. It's how the world functions, better get used to it.  :sad1:

 

[swarfrat]

The Ernie Ball patent was not on compensated nuts, but some particular microminutia of the design  of the nut. Compensated nuts have been around long enough that there is internet prior art which is old enough that had it been patented, the patent would have expired.

I emailed Ernie Ball and they have no plans to sell it as a product.
I emailed Earvana and they said they're still selling product.

Earvana is overpriced, but at least they're willing to market it.

 

[elfro89]

Don't really care to be honest pablo, A product I like and use that solved a problem I find to be extremely irritating has now gone off the market. I would like to know how they infringed it and where are the Ernie Ball version of the nuts on sale to the public? Bet they only put them on high end Music Man's to make sure their low end guitars are inferior. These tactics piss me off since you don't need to spend thousands to get a good instrument, finding a guitar without any intonation problems was difficult, the Earvana solved a lot of problems - not perfect mind you but I will severely miss it on future guitars.

Might even look to making my own replica nuts.

 

[stubhead]

If I read the articles right, Ernie Ball's patent concerned entire guitars - Earvana can still go on selling aftermarket nuts. What happened is that ESP (and maybe others) began offering brand new guitars already fitted with an Earvana. And there's no mention anywhere of the Buzz Feiten tuning "system", which is just some tiny tuning offsets combined with a compensated nut, and Buzz* is offered on new guitars and retrofits. I just know that if I tune my G and Low E strings a little flat, everything's groovy (enough). The Equal Tempered tuning that's been used in Western music for four hundred years is more "out-of-tune" relative to Just Intonation than any tuning offsets. (Which is why people with perfect pitch have to learn to tolerate the dissonance that's everywhere.)

(I don't really want to give hundreds of dollars to someone named BUZZ to improve my guitar;
kinda like going to a lawyer named Mr. Cheete or a dentist named Dr. Payne....) :blob7:

 

[pabloman]

Don't really care to be honest pablo, A product I like and use that solved a problem I find to be extremely irritating has now gone off the market. I would like to know how they infringed it and where are the Ernie Ball version of the nuts on sale to the public? Bet they only put them on high end Music Man's to make sure their low end guitars are inferior. These tactics piss me off since you don't need to spend thousands to get a good instrument, finding a guitar without any intonation problems was difficult, the Earvana solved a lot of problems - not perfect mind you but I will severely miss it on future guitars.

Might even look to making my own replica nuts.

If you read the articles and the court documents you will see that the issue EB had was with the nut being available as OE on numerous ESP guitars. The nuts seem to still be readily available. If you cant find any let me know I found a few links. Allbeit the vendors are all in America. Things could be different where you are at. :dontknow:

 

[elgravos]

The annoying thing about all this is that there has been a cease and desist order - or at least the threat of one - and therefore, it's no longer available from Warmoth.  Whether it's earvana or EB, it shouldn't really matter who's getting the license fees. It seems that EB are being difficult (i.e.greedy) otherwise, they would have come to some agreement with Warmoth such that it was still available.  But really, how much can you ask for as a royalty for a $35 nut.  Sh*t, I'll pay $45 so that EB can get their cut each time.  Simple fact is that it makes a huge difference if you were able to get the custom cut nut when it was available.  I'm extremely glad I bought my last neck when it was still an option.  It's so good that I don't plan on buying any more necks until it comes back.  It's a huge differentiator (does that even exist as a word)  for me.  I don't think I have great pitch but it really does make a difference.  IP law takes BS to great new extremes - I'm a professional and happen to know more than I like about this rubbish.  All these relative pitch things have been known for hundreds of years.  There was nothing patentable in the first place.  It's not even the lawyers who suck, it's the USPTO - but that's old news.  Sh*t  back when Warmoth announced it as a new option - and I don't mean the crap plastic screw in plastic earvana nut which I almost bought a couple of times (but fortunately never did) - I nearly wet myself.  All I can say is that EB have nothing to lose by giving Warmoth a license - I'll gladly pay a 30% surplus to get a machined compensated graphite nut.  It's a ripoff but it's well worth it - and it's not like they even use it as part of their standard models.

All I can say is don't delete those CNC programs,  Hopefully, they will be buzzing again soon. 

 

[Strat Avenger]

I have the Earvana nut on one of my guitars, and I really don't notice much of a difference if any.
I typically have to tune mt B-string a tiny bit flat on all my guitars for chords to sound in-tune.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Earvana's site still sells them.  They also make the shelf nuts, not just the plastic and screw thingies, I have one on my Les Paul.  Yes they are overpriced, but really, it makes open chords sound right.  And for a few dollars you can get the nut.  I have yet to replace one, so I look at it as part of the custom guitar building experience.  I'll pay a little for a better sounding instrument.  Earvana also still sells the ones that fit in the LSR route.  I know that they make black ones, but I don't know if they are graphtech material.  I am guessing if the legal thing was that big of a deal, the webpage would have been taken down.
Patrick

 

[Jusatele]

(Which is why people with perfect pitch have to learn to tolerate the dissonance that's everywhere.)

Actually that is relative pitch, or being able to heat your intervals, Perfect pitch is the ability to hear a note and identify that note.
I teach 4 or 5 kids a year they have relative pitch built in, I have them whistle and identify what note they naturally whistle, have them use that to tune the A  string and then to listen to the intervals as they tune a guitar, only time they have to fret a note is when they are whistling, otherwise they just have to listen to the harmonics in the interval.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I know this ain't a "tech" thread here, but what exactly is a compensated nut?  What is the difference between a standard nut and a compensated nut?

 

[Cagey]

Rather than row through the whole thing again, it's easier to just read Earvana's write-up on it.

Keep in mind there's a certain amount of marketing license taken there. They make it sound as though they're pioneers, but actually the technology has been around for quite some time. Even Ernie Ball doesn't have as much claim on it as they'd like everyone to believe. There's no mystery to it, and plenty of prior art. Finally, while the effect is noticeable, it's not dramatic. The individual note compensation is outside the range of human hearing, and is only audible in chords where beat frequencies come into play. If they charged $5 for the nut, everybody would install them. But, at $35-$50, it's of questionable value.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

But, at $35-$50, it's of questionable value.

This is Cagey's opinion.  The thing does work, but you have to read to see what it works on.

You can see in the picture that the effect is primarily on frets 1 - 4.  If you do not play open chords, or in that area, it will not be of much use.  But, for those that do, it is a big help.  That area of the neck is in tune.  Or in tune better, if you will.  How much you are willing to pay, or what you think is a fair price is up to you.  $40 for a nut is fine in my opinion.  I am not willing to put the time in to make my own, that would be a lot more expensive in my mind.
Patrick

 

[Jusatele]

My guitar tech bought one and carves his own off of them in you want one, takes him a few minutes in a vice.

 

[Jusatele]

Notice that diagram is wrong,it says the tuner is set at C 440,

that is wrong, It is A 440, concert pitch,

C is 523.3 at concert pitch, middle C is 261.6

now if they made that much of a basic flaw on the scale, can you trust their research on how the tones are affected?

 

[Cagey]

Actually, it's not the $40 that bothers me. The thing does work after all, and I've paid more than that for nuts such as the LSR. What bugs me is that it's a $2 piece of work that they want $40 for that they didn't even design. That's just avaricious profiteering enabled by the award of a poorly-considered government-sanctioned monopoly on common knowledge. I don't mind somebody making money; I encourage it. I'm a capitalist from way back. But, that's just ridiculous.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I doubt the person that makes the web graphics also does the design of the product.  The advertising dept usually is not that big on getting their hands dirty.  Just saying.  I understand that $40 for a produced part is a bit steep.  I don't know how much work they put in on the design and genesis of it.  But, they do make them for several different radii, different styles of nut placement, 7 strings, and for a floyd.  If you have to pay to have the moldings made or any of that kind of cost, your product prices just went way up.  Also, that is not including advertising.  Normally you'd need to be able to produce it at 25% of the cost that you sell it at.  Including overhead as well.  So it being $40 bucks is not something that strikes me as absurd.  Until the EB thing, they also had the market cornered on it, and would be recouping their costs and trying to get a bit of capital to expand.  At least I would.
Patrick