Effects Loops overrated????

[Doughboy]

I've been messing with my gear lately & noticed how much better my phase 90 sounds plugged right into the amp & as opposed to the effects loops.

I then tried this with my chorus & flanger & they all sound better this way. More warm & creamy & less harsh for some reason.

I'm thinking of bypassing the effects loop all together, taking my delay out as well & going straight in from now on.

Something like: guitar = delay + modulation effects + compressor + overdrive = amp

Has anyone done this? Any pros or cons?

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Yes. It really depends on the amp and the effect.

And I do find that most stomp boxes sounds better in front of the amp than in the loop.

Line level and rack size effects tend to sound better in the loop.

But I would always try out both options to decide.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Oh - and some of the issues are related to impedance mismatch between loop and unit and/or differences between parallel and serial loops.

 

[bluestometal]

Yes, it depends by the effect/unit. Some effects are designed to be used in front of the amp or in both ways (phase 90is one of those if I remember correctly). I prefer to have fx in the loop but sometimes I like the specific sound that you can achieve putting a phase or a chorus in front of the amp, it's all about taste and specific situation. As for everything gear related always try both and trust your ears.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I think it just depends on the effect. I love the Phase 90 into the front of the amp too. But things like reverb and delay I like to have in the loop, because otherwise if I increase preamp gain, I'm increasing it on the reverb and delay too and I need to turn those effects too.

In the end there's no rule, just put the effect where it sounds best. A loop just gives you more options.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

If your amp is your overdrive/distortion sound, you won't like the delay out front.

Simply put, time based delays and reverbs sound best after the preamp section, modulation based effects (chorus, flanger, phase90, etc) sound better out front.

 

[Cagey]

If your amp is your overdrive/distortion sound, you won't like the delay out front.

Simply put, time based delays and reverbs sound best after the preamp section, modulation based effects (chorus, flanger, phase90, etc) sound better out front.

Perzactly.

Modulation effects such as chorus, flange, phase are meant to modify the signal. Time-based effects such as reverbs and delays are meant to emulate an environment.

So, you create the signal first (preamp), then create an environment (power amp). Effects loop is between those two things, so...

That's why your better effects or setups allow for the "4CM" or "Four Cable Method", where you run some effect into the front end and some in the loop.

 

[dmraco]

If your amp is your overdrive/distortion sound, you won't like the delay out front.

Simply put, time based delays and reverbs sound best after the preamp section, modulation based effects (chorus, flanger, phase90, etc) sound better out front.

Yep.  I must preface this with nothing is 100%.  However, without a loop my Holy Grail reverb wold be useless with my Mesa Mini Recto. 

Place in front in the clean channel, pedal at about 25%, it gets a nice mild verb.  However changing my amp to the gain channel turns the verb into massive amounts of HALL reverb.  Terrible.  The loop eliminated this.  I run all my pedals except and wah and boost pedal dejour in the loop.  The Wah is boost are in front.

 

[mayfly]

Something else that no one has mentioned:  the effects loop is a good spot for volume control.  Especially in amps where most of the tone comes from the preamp section.  I used to run a 'lead' switch - which essentially was an adjustable pad that would be out of the circuit in lead mode.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Depends on the effect.  Maybe the nomenclature is misleading as well.  For example, I've used effects loops before to run a separate preamp; only using the power section, and vice versa.

 

[line6man]

Something like: guitar = delay + modulation effects + compressor + overdrive = amp

If it sounds good, then do it. But I've never heard of anyone running delays before compression and overdrive.

FWIW, effects loops are generally meant for effects that go after preamp distortions. I wouldn't put a Phase 90 there for two reasons. Firstly, the nominal signal level in an effects loop is likely to be -10dBu or +4dBV, not instrument level. Additionally, though there will be no issues with the input impedance of any pedal,  the output impedance of a pedal may or may not be an issue with the input impedance of a power amp input. Usually, the idea is to keep input impedances low to reduce thermal noise, since thermal noise is proportional to resistance, so a low impedance power amp input may load the signal in a purely resistive manner, if the output impedance of a pedal is high, for whatever reason. Second, that sort of effect tends to sound better before a distortion, rather than after. On the other hand, I would never think of running a delay or reverb before a preamp, because those sort of effects sound best as the last things in the signal chain.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

Something else that no one has mentioned:  the effects loop is a good spot for volume control.  Especially in amps where most of the tone comes from the preamp section.  I used to run a 'lead' switch - which essentially was an adjustable pad that would be out of the circuit in lead mode.

The only thing I use my effects loop in my amp for is an attenuator.  It has a send and receive level knob as well as a wet/dry mix.  So i set it to wet, dial my gain in to where I like it, crank the master up to about 9, and then level the volume off with the effects loop.  It's the thing I use it for.  Just jumper it with a cable.  Thats my $0.05 (since there are no pennies anymore)

EDIT:  I guess what I'm saying is different than what you are.  In my method I'm sucking my tone out of the Power Amp section rather than the pre-amp.  But still, FX loop = volume control is the same idea.

 

[Tony Raven]

I learned my lesson on this one a couple years back. A friend wanted to buy my Snarling Dogs wah, which I hadn't used in a while. Thinking that I wanted to show it off properly, I looped it. Sounded terrible. Realizing my error, I flipped cables around & ran it to the input... instant sale.