Ebony as a tone wood?

[deadmansclick]

im thinking of having a jet black body and neck guitar, no different woods at all, just a plain black all ebony unfinished (except for oil) guitar. i want it to be the kind of guitar that exudes power, not with its pretty paintjob (which i do like dont get me wrong) but with its simplicity, and additional customising. the customising will be along the lines of carving/deep deep engraving of calligraphy text which is then filled in using rock hard coloured resin (probably clear amber) and then back lit. gold hardware, and a carved headstock.

ive previously owned a parker fly, and in my opinion there really is no better body shape, and so although i wont be copying that, i do like the idea of an ultra hard strong wood that i can slim down more and carve without worrying too much that it will split or warp.

so obviously im a novice and have never built a guitar, but ill take my time and make sure i get everything planned and talked over before hand.

but, ebony - a wise choice for tone? or not?

i know this guitar sounds a bit dull maybe compared to some of the awesome paint jobs here - but think grande piano, but tuned at the crossroads, or black tie event where the most gentile of guests starts waving a broken bottle around when he realises he hasnt got a payrise......

i think it will be something very special

dave
my musics here by the way (just scroll down main page for music link) www.deadmansclick.com (the electric guitar WAS parker fly deluxe  - sold like an idiot - and the acoustic was a tacoma c1c chief - dropped a metal flight case thru it, and it was just about good for firewood.)

i now have one of the new mexican 50s style strats (a bit more weathered looking than the last ones) and a faith venus electro acoustic, which im in love with.#

also - anyone here have any opinion on dimarzio area 58/61's?

i know this is a whole mix of diff topics, but maybe when i settle in ill find my way about

cheers

dave
(english in scotland)

 

[greywolf]

Ebony as a body wood would be HEAVY ( 65-70 lbs per cubic foot) and way expensive.  Tone wise as it is very dense I wouldn't expect a lot of warmth.

As a comparison Hard maple:42-45 lbs./cuft. Soft: 35 lbs/cuft.
                          Walnut :36-38 lbs. per cu. ft
                          Ash : 41lbs/cu.ft.


A Trans black finish on a more resonant wood may be worth considering for the body.

George Harrison had an all Rosewood Tele and it was much darker sounding than the norm.

 

[m4rk0]

an interesting idea. I have thought about an ebony top before, which may give you the same effect.
I have seen ebony tops before btw, and don't expect them to be completely black.
not sure if Warmoth has blanks big enough for a body either. there is a macasar ebony top in the showcase, and it looks like that is in 4 pieces.
so once again, maybe you are better off with a ebony top on a darker wood body, such as rosewood or walnut.

 

[m4rk0]

 

[deadmansclick]

id seen on the warmoth site that they do ebony bodies for 450 ish dollars (memory may be off by a few dollars) and i had been looking at posts here that talked about hollow/chambered strats, and also that it was mainly the neck that gives the tone, altho i wasnt sure i totally agreed with that.

the weigh thing may well be an issue tho, altho i have to say as i plan to shave it much thinner than a strat if i can (or chamber it) i wasnt that worried, maybe i should gig with a les paul for a while before i make my mind up on that

im a bit confused really as far as ebony goes. ill tell you why.

on there site, warmoth says that the ebony necks are bright, and i part of what i was thinking was ok so i have a very heavy body, which if i used other heavy guitars like les pauls etc as a yardstick, then maybe yes it will darken and all, and no doubt add sustain (which im all for) but if the ebony is classed as bright, which given its hardness i can understand (as a novice im thinking lighter softer woods would absorb sound? im thinking of the dull thud from a sofdt wood and the ring from hardwood? anyways i thought maybe the brightness of the wood naturally, would maybe counteract the wiehg of the wood overall.

i dont know, im just kinda throwing things out there, to build up a picture in my mind.

i really want the blackest wood, without a laquer or paint finish, just maybe a stain if its not black enough, and oil to seal.

i have to say tho, i am tempted by teh flame tops.

i can see this will be an interesting topic for me, because altho i cant find anyone owning an ebony bodied guitar, warmoth do make them, and so part of me is wondering what i can do to work with it, what properties can be offset or enhanced by combining with other things such as weight, shape, and pickups/hardware etc.

altho i may seem dead set on what i want by the way, i am very interested in hearing the different perspectives so i can learn and develop my ideas, so thanks for your replies

dave

 

[deadmansclick]

i do really like that finish tho greywolf

 

[tfarny]

Hmm. I've never heard of ebony as a body wood, and don't see it anywhere listed at the W site. You might want to give them a call to see if this is even possible and what the charge would be before pursuing further. I know those all-ebony necks were going for around $900, and that's a lot less wood. Ebony is going the way of brazilian rw from what I gather. Besides, there are lots of ways to get a cool black guitar.

 

[Superlizard]

Ebony is typically used as a fretboard wood to give definition and clarity (read: brightness) to the tone... and of course, it's smooth as a baby's bottom.

i.e. Gibson Les Paul Custom neck - mahogany neck/ebony fretboard.

 

[deadmansclick]

yep i think your right, they have a box which has ebony in it for bodies but not actually a body in teh results so i got mixed up.

damn, i was set on that. ill have to rethink

 

[greywolf]

As a rule of thumb the denser the wood the brighter it is . Certainly an ebony cap would be cool, and if not more than 1/4" wouldn't make it too heavy , if it was over mahagony you could expect a tone not too disimilar to maple ( like an Les Paul) .

The other issue with ebony is it is HARD , so shaping/sanding/ etc is more of a challenge.  I've seen diamond bit lathes shatter on it.

 

[callaway]

As far as getting jet black ebony, that is nearly always done by dying the fretboard. In all kinds of ebony, it is fairly common to have lighter streaks.

While I'm posting, I might as well put my opinion out there--- I don't think you want ebony for the body. Maybe for the top (maybe with a korina back?), but definitely not for the body. Of course, you can always go and try something different! Many happy accidents have happened because people went against common thought.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Just for the record: Warmoth does not dye our Ebony in order to acquire Jet Black Ebony.  It's just the darkest Ebony we stock.

 

[callaway]

Just for the record: Warmoth does not dye our Ebony in order to acquire Jet Black Ebony.  It's just the darkest Ebony we stock.

Yeah, I didn't want to imply that. I was more trying to say that when you see Ebony fingerboards on Gibsons, etc., they are pretty much all dyed black.

Didn't mean to stir the pot there!

 

[OzziePete]

Another thing to consider if you are going to carve and shape your own guitar body:

A lot of the hardware, electronics and pickups all assume a certain amount of depth in the body that they'll be put into.

Pots stand a certain minimum height, pickups have a certain depth to them underneath the mounting ring, screws for pickguards, tremolos, battery boxes etc. all assume a certain amount of depth of the body. I think the magic figure is around 1 3/4 ". Any thinner body than that and you really have to take the components' size into account.

I'd also think that carving ebony would be hard labour, both for you and your machinery.

A mahogany or korina body (solid or transparent black) might be a better choice.

 

[boaty]

My guess is that an all ebony guitar (including body, neck, and fingerboard) would have a lot of brightness, a very fast and crisp attack, tight bass response, and either even-sounding mids or scooped-sounding mids.

With a good amp and the right pickups, you'll probably be able to get a great sound out of it even if it turns out to be overly bright.  My feeling is that it would be more of an aesthetic thing unless you want it for studio work where you need a super crisp sound.

I actually don't like ebony boards very much.  Compared to rosewood, I find ebony sounds like it's missing something.  I'm a rhythm player and a gibson lover but I've learned that I like rosewood boards on maple necks better than I like ebony boards on mahogany necks.  I also prefer rosewood boards on acoustics, but my favourite acoustics in the world have all been Martins.

I have family members who own Takamines with ebony boards and the guitars have more brightness and tighter bass response than Takamines I've played with rosewood boards.

One application where I like ebony boards is on guitars that are otherwise all-mahogany.  All-mahogany guitars with rosewood boards I find to be muddy (except when they're SGs for some reason).  If I have an all-mahogany guitar in my hands, I need either the pickups to be P90s or I need the board to be ebony.