Crimson guitars; I'm starting to give up

[Orpheo]

Hi Guys,

as you may or may not know, I've ordered 2 les pauls, 2.5 years ago, at crimson guitars (www.crimsonguitars.com).

The specs were quite exotic in the wood-department, and I wanted some sweet features, like wood binding and purfling on the fretboard. Based upon his website and diary, I thought that his estimated building time, 3 months, would be quite accurate. So, I accounted for 3 to 6 months, TOPS.

In the mean time, I bought an off the shelf-guitar he had lying around, and I'm quite pleased with that guitar. Not 100%, but thats inherent to the design, and with a fretjob with ultrajumbo frets, the guitar would be a whole lot better. In the mean time I'll settle with 009-042 strings.

So Far, So good.

Fast Forward to now. We're 2.5 years later, after the order-date, and 2 years 4 months after the initial payment.

The 'twins' are still far from completion, and the luthier has finished other guitars but mine. Hell, he even has set up a completely new line of guitars, but my guitars are still far from completion.

In all fair honousty, I'm getting fed up with Ben Crowe and Crimson Guitars in general. All the bullshit he spews on you, its actually strange I haven't got annoyed sooner than this. 'my grandfather fell of the curb', 'my wife is ill', 'I'm having a child'.

All troublesome, I'm sure. But if you're the only one in the company, you can't let things like that distract you. I'm sure tons of other guys would be pissed off if Ken Warmoth suddenly said 'no sorry, the company has to be shut down for a week, cause my wife is giving labour, and oh, 2 months after that cause I wanna spend time with the kid'.

I understand his position, but I don't accept it. The company has to run; I paid good money to have him build a guitar!

In the initial order, he stated 'give me 40% up front, some money down the road, and the rest when its completed'. And so I did. I gave him 40% up front, 25% halfway, and the rest will be when the guitars are done. So, the sooner he gets them done, the sooner he'll get the money!

One of the things that bugs me most is that he accepts other jobs, finishes other guitars, starts other projects, but my guitars are far, far away from being done. and that is something I really can't stand...

 

[whitebison66]

I am sorry to hear about it. I have had a similar experience with another person, so I know how it feels. I can only suggest continuous firm but gentle pressure. The Internet makes business much more vulnerable to critique, and hopefully he realizes that.

 

[Orpheo]

I am sorry to hear about it. I have had a similar experience with another person, so I know how it feels. I can only suggest continuous firm but gentle pressure. The Internet makes business much more vulnerable to critique, and hopefully he realizes that.

he sure should realise that. I'm not the kind who talks bad about someone, just to talk bad.

 

[rapfohl09]

Thats stupid, plain and simple. I would just give him an ultimatum of sorts. 2.5 years is a ridiculously long time to wait for anything that you have paid for.

 

[Ace Flibble]

If I were you I'd let him know he's got one last shot at getting the guitars finished pronot (and to top standard, no shortcuts), or you're going straight to the lawyers. You can't quote a price and time frame then completely disregard that while doing other jobs. Thankfully (and unluckily for him), British law covers this very nicely. Trading standards would have a field day with him, from the sound of it.

 

[m4rk0]

yeah give the fecker an ultimatum...
He pretty much blogs a lot of things he is doing, so how can he say he doesn't have time if he prioritizes other orders??

 

[Nando Vallart]

Yes, as Marko said, I was checking his blog now and the last time it was show something from your guitar was October 2010...

Not sure of how long he told you it would be, but this inlay surely will take some time to be done:

 

[Orpheo]

The thing. Is,he keeps pushing it more and more to the future,giving new promises and dates,but it never falls through. Sure,that inlay would take time,but we settled on Abalone crosses a long time ago,just to speed it all up.

I will give him an ultimatum if he breaks the promises he made today.

 

[mayfly]

wow - this guy does some nice work.  And he seems to do a lot of it.

But there was one shot where he was working on a Rickenbacker bass copy - come on!  you have to have time to work on something else than that!  :tard:

 

[bagman67]

It looks like Mr. Crowe is overbooked or isn't charging high enough prices to scare away work he can't give appropriate attention to.

The guy seems to see that his bread is buttered thusly:

"I'm building guitars for Fripp and other famous dudes, and building my reputation on that; this other work inhibits my ability to capitalize on the Fripp connection, so I'll make it lower priority."  So the question is whether you want to be the little piggy sucking the hindmost teat on that hog.  

The thing about ultimatums (ultimata?) is that once you level one, you need to be prepared to adhere to its terms.  

"You have 90 days to finish, with demonstration of substantial progress at  30, 45, 60, 75 and 90 days or I walk" means you need to police the terms of the ultimatum and have your contract termination letter ready to send, and be ready to walk if it appears he's flaking out some more.  And who knows, if you lower the boom, maybe he'll have the presence of mind to say "Look, this simply hasn't worked out.  Sorry, here's your deposit back."    And remember that if he has completed substantial work on the axe he's building for you, he is likely to have a market for a completed guitar even if you walk.   That fact cuts both ways - he's sunk money into materials and labor into construction (albeit far less than you'd like) so he's eager to recoup his outlay, and therefore he might want to keep you on the hook; but he also knows there's a market for the guitar even if you walk away, and he may prefer to tell you goodbye and get out from under his obligation to you.

I know I haven't said anything you don't already know, but sometimes I'm that way...

Bagman

 

[Orpheo]

@bagman I think you're right, it sure would seem that way.

you see, I can be very, very patient. But when I see other guitars being finished, which were ordered later than mine, I get annoyed. Very annoyed! I like to see the pics of the woods, where he planes them etc etc, but why not finish off mine?

here's what he has to do.


peel off the fretboards
cut the fretslots (he already has the boards cut, which is, by the way, vintage artist grade snakewood, without the sapwood, only core!)
cut the inlay (20 pieces of abalone, of which 12 are the same, and 8 are the same!!)
cut the recesses
inlay them
cut the purflingchannels
inlay the silver lining (literally, lol)

make the flamed maple binding
glue the fretboards on
fret them
level the frets
finish it off

and from that point on, I can finish them if neccasary!!!!!

and why all this hassle? he wasn't satisfied with the inlay quality, and HE PROPOSED HIMSELF to change the fretboards!!!!! not me!

I think I'll be happy as can be with these guitars, though. they are so darned stunning!

here's a pic, just so you guys know what we're talking about.

The first picture was made last july or august, something like that. The last was a year ago, almost to the day (during a show in London, March '10, where he, apparantly had SO MANY potential customers drool over my guitars. can't blame 'm, these woods are stunning!)

The specs.

purpleheart back, rosewood top (handpicked by me), bubinga/pau ferro laminate neck, (to be) snakewood fingerboard, custom inlay, oil finish (to match the other guitars I have with exotic woods; I have a purpleheart top on rosewood back, which is oiled).
padouk back, wenge top (handpicked by me). wenge/bocote neck, and (to be) snakewood binding, cusotm inlay, oil finish (to match the other exotic guitars I have; I have a padouk top/wenge back LP, also oiled).

Common specs: 1.1'' fatback neck, compound radius, starting at 7.5'', going to 18''. 24.75'' scale (me likes!), backplates made from the back themselves, 3 humbuckers, my own design (think an x2n/superdistortion hybrid, and you're getting there), abalone celtic cross inlay with silver purfling. the bodies are also 2mm thicker than usual. the bodies are NOT chambered! the headstock is of my own design.

here you see how far the necks go into the body

and here's the headstock:

here you can see why the fretboards have to be changed:

the binding is ok, but the inlay is crooked.

 

[stubhead]

Could it just possibly be that the guitars have a "worth" to him in their unfinished state, to show to customers what nice woods and construction techniques he uses? This doesn't make any sense to me, he's got "black box" mental functions that aren't explicable in terms of normal business practice.

 

[Orpheo]

Could it just possibly be that the guitars have a "worth" to him in their unfinished state, to show to customers what nice woods and construction techniques he uses? This doesn't make any sense to me, he's got "black box" mental functions that aren't explicable in terms of normal business practice.

the first part: might be! he likes to show them off at fairs and stuff

the bold-part: don't understand that, sorry what do you mean by 'black box' mental functions?

 

[kboman]

It looks like Mr. Crowe is overbooked or isn't charging high enough prices to scare away work he can't give appropriate attention to.

I'm with Bagman here, and the main cause is probably inexperience - he just turned 30! He needs to up his prices a bit and have one or two people doing much of the repetitive stuff. Oherwise there will just be more people in Opheo's situation and his reputation will suffer...

 

[stubhead]

"Black box" is a term used to describe an unknown and maybe unknowable machine, process or device - you know what's going in the front end, and what's coming out the back end, but you can't figure out what happens in between.
In this guy's case, we know what's going in: beautiful wood and Orpheo's money -
and we know what's coming out: web pictures, tradeshow bragging, BUT NO fudging ACTUAL COMPLETE GUITARS. Ahem.

 

[Orpheo]

ah, that kind of 'black box'. Couldn't really figure out what you meant.

The funniest thing happened. After I opened this thread, all work came to a dead stop in the workshop! not just my guitars. ALL guitars! and he said, and I quote, 'I will get working on them immediately'.

jerk.

 

[OzziePete]

ah, that kind of 'black box'. Couldn't really figure out what you meant.

The funniest thing happened. After I opened this thread, all work came to a dead stop in the workshop! not just my guitars. ALL guitars! and he said, and I quote, 'I will get working on them immediately'.

jerk.

Might have gone a bit viral and got back to him that he was being slack with a customer?  :icon_scratch:

 

[Dan025]

these are some seriously nice guitars. well i hope you get them soon so we can all see pictures

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

I think the man needs a good slap in the face and to be pointed in the direction of several fairly agitated customers (assuming there would be more then you, orph) especially the one with several heavy pieces of lumber prime fo' smackin'.
In my (very, or probably extremely) limited experience with dealing with delayed orders of musical gear, i've found a stern word can be a good thing, not just because maybe some people are slack, but the way things are down my way, stuff is soo busy, your orders can get lost in the paperwork.

 

[kboman]

ah, that kind of 'black box'. Couldn't really figure out what you meant.

The funniest thing happened. After I opened this thread, all work came to a dead stop in the workshop! not just my guitars. ALL guitars! and he said, and I quote, 'I will get working on them immediately'.

jerk.

Well, the Twitpic updates stopped at least... Maybe that's a sign of actual guitar building instead?
I've been looking forward to the day when I can order a Crimson guitar, I hope the issues are worked out or I'll take my business elsewhere. Myka is not as interesting but seems to get things done and is very clear about build times. Oh well. Keep us updated Orpheo!