Control pot holes on a carved top VIP - advice

[Last Triumph]

I'm about to drill the holes for my V/T & selector switches and have my special drill bits on stand by.

Just wanted some advice....

I trust that due to the carved top, I'm best drilling the holes perpendicular to the outer surface so any angle issues are dealt with on the inside of the control cavity?

Also, given the varied thickness of the top throughout the control cavity area, how does one overcome this issue so the material isn't too thick for the control pot to make it through the other side?

 

[Cagey]

Perpendicular to the face is good. Depth is usually not a problem if you have the long bushing pots...

If not, you're gonna be in trouble. The picture above shows that type of pot mounted to a pickguard rather than through a carved top, but you can see where the additional length would allow for a thicker mounting surface. You could use the shorter pots, but for what it would cost to cut relief for it, the amount of risk involved with doing it, and the weaker mounting you'd end up with, it's better to just use the right pot.

 

[Last Triumph]

Hey Cagey, how you doin'?

I'll get this jalopy together one of these days!  :binkybaby:

Just checked - yes I have the long pots!  :headbang:

Now.... tell me about the LP style p/up selector switch.....?    :sad:

 

[stubhead]

Same thing, perpy to the surface. One thing we see time and time again is manufacturers advertising things as a virtue that are actually just easier or CHEAPER ways to do things, and I suspect that's true of PRS's "inlayed" volume knob thing. Of course Schecter, Warmoth and everybody else has to do it too. I suspect that in Paul Reed Smith's case, they just have a machine that drills all the holes and cuts the insets at the same time.. "Oooo it's custom"... I'm pretty sure it won't make you a better guitar player. Or worse.

 

[Dan025]

yeah being in manufacturing and seeing how things are done, they likely have either a cnc program that carves it into the top which is like 5 minutes more cad time once. then makes about zero difference in run time on the program. going perp to the top on a cnc is doable but requires a more expensive machine  or one with attachments unless you just find an average angle between all knobs and build it into the fixture. or, it can be done with a multi station drill press that drills all the holes for the pots and counter bores them simultaneously with custom made counterbores. which probably takes a whopping 3-4 seconds per body. but since it takes time and tooling to make a counterbore with a nice big radius to blend it into the body and it needs to be done prior to paint then perpendicular to the top is fine for most people at home. you can then counter bore from the inside perp to the hole if you really want the pots to fit without rocking or doing anything weird. perp to the top will keep the gaps under the knobs consistent but i dont really think perp to the inside of the cavity is all that bad either. it's a matter of preference i guess.

 

[Cagey]

Now.... tell me about the LP style p/up selector switch.....?    :sad:

Those are a little bit more trouble on a carved top, as there's not a deep-mounting switch of that type available. If you're mounting it in the control cavity, you'll have to relieve it. Takes a 3/4" (20mm) Forstner bit. We talked about this once before here; you may want to review it.

As I recall, you don't have a drill press? You're going to want one for this. If that bit gets away from you, you'll be out the front of the guitar and there won't be enough beer in the world to make you happy again.

 

[pabloman]

They do make a nut that reaches down into the cavity though. It allows for a little bit of a recessed mounting.

 

[Last Triumph]

Now.... tell me about the LP style p/up selector switch.....?    :sad:

Those are a little bit more trouble on a carved top, as there's not a deep-mounting switch of that type available. If you're mounting it in the control cavity, you'll have to relieve it. Takes a 3/4" (20mm) Forstner bit. We talked about this once before here; you may want to review it.

As I recall, you don't have a drill press? You're going to want one for this. If that bit gets away from you, you'll be out the front of the guitar and there won't be enough beer in the world to make you happy again.

Part of the reason this is taking so long is that I just don't have the courage at the moment to drill into this...

I've got all the ingredients now - brad points etc - just need to actually do it.

And I don't want to.

I want to run away and pretend it never happened.

Cagey, how about I send you a 1st class plane ticket and fly you over to the UK for some good old fashioned British weather, terrible food and poor customer service?

You'd like that - I know you would!

In all seriousness - it's just the toggle switch that's worrying me.

I might ask my highly skilled wood worker father to relieve the inside with hand tools....?

 

[Last Triumph]

Is there no chance of using a forstner bit in a hand held electric drill iI go carefully and gently?

 

[Updown]

I actually don't blame you for crapping yourself. 

If at all YOU have any DOUBTS at all doing it yourself, with the correct tools at hand.
(Think ya need a drill press to be really safe)

THEN MAY-BE BEST NOT TO DO IT  !!

I would highly advise you to get someone that could do it and watch if possible.
For what little charge, could just save you one huge headache and lots of $$$$

Or practice on some other wood / dinning table / coffee table for starters at least .... may-be.  :dontknow:

See what others say 1st thou  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

Is there no chance of using a forstner bit in a hand held electric drill iI go carefully and gently?

I'm sure it's possible, but I wouldn't do it. Drills are designed to dig in. They wouldn't really work otherwise. So, you kinda need to force them to stop digging if you only want to go to a certain depth. Usually, that just means pulling back on the thing, but that's kinda like the old "pull and pray" method of birth control. It doesn't always work, and the consequences of failure are quite serious. With a drill press you can certainly go too far, but there's a depth stop you can set to prevent that, and simply releasing the feed is usually enough as well. Either way, your chances of drilling too far are prevented or dramatically reduced unless you're careless.

It's a 2 minute job on a press. Get the help. Surely somebody has one? Perhaps there's a local furniture repair or cabinetry shop? Any machine shop will have a drill press. It's a very common tool - usually one of the first things someone will buy once they master the hammer and screwdriver. Offer somebody 10 quid to make a little sawdust. Tell 'em it's high-grade quilted Maple dust. Probably not a lot of that in England <grin>

Be sure to take a towel or something to lay the body on - don't depend on anybody else having the respect for that finish that you do.

 

[stubhead]

ask my highly skilled wood worker father to relieve the inside with hand tools....?

Yeah, if that's there for you, take advantage of it. You might even watch... you might even ask him about a full custom build, and learn. Given what I have lying around, I would be going at it from the inside with hand tools myself. Wood is merely wood, but it has it's own rules of engagement and it can throw a hissy if you start underestimating it.

 

[Last Triumph]

Oh.... yeah...... I erm.... kinda forgot...... I do have a drill press.  :confused4:

It's in my garage under a tarp and I only remembered it was there whilst looking for something this afternoon!

Guess I'll use that then and buy a 20mm forstner bit....

In other news, I managed to get the pick ups mounted this afternoon. They're direct wood mount so I had to pack out the bottoms with medium density one sided sticky foam pads cut to perfectly fill the pick-up cavtiy rout. This allows them to sit on top of the pads with stability, yet allows the screws to pull them into the rout to allow for height adjustment. Worked really well.

Controls next...... <GULP>

 

[DangerousR6]

Now.... tell me about the LP style p/up selector switch.....?    :sad:

Those are a little bit more trouble on a carved top, as there's not a deep-mounting switch of that type available. If you're mounting it in the control cavity, you'll have to relieve it. Takes a 3/4" (20mm) Forstner bit. We talked about this once before here; you may want to review it.

As I recall, you don't have a drill press? You're going to want one for this. If that bit gets away from you, you'll be out the front of the guitar and there won't be enough beer in the world to make you happy again.

Part of the reason this is taking so long is that I just don't have the courage at the moment to drill into this...

I've got all the ingredients now - brad points etc - just need to actually do it.

And I don't want to.

I want to run away and pretend it never happened.

Cagey, how about I send you a 1st class plane ticket and fly you over to the UK for some good old fashioned British weather, terrible food and poor customer service?

You'd like that - I know you would!

In all seriousness - it's just the toggle switch that's worrying me.

I might ask my highly skilled wood worker father to relieve the inside with hand tools....?

C'mon man...

 

[fdesalvo]

Do not drill pot holes by hand!!!  I have done this and you will chip the finish .  The good news is the washer and knob will hide the mark, but you won't have the luxury with the switch.

 

[Cagey]

Chipped finishes are more often due to using the wrong drill bit than any difference between a hand or press-mounted drill motor. You need to use either a brad point or Forstner bit as they both have cutting spurs on the outer diameter of the bit that slice through the surface on the outer diameter of the hole before they start shaving out the interior of the hole proper. A regular twist drill starts from the center, and tends to just terrorize the surface. Any finish gets more pushed off than cut, and that's where you get the chipping.

Another thing is you want to drill from the finish side in. Drilling from the inside out thinking you'll spare the finish is just begging for tear-out no matter what type of bit you use.

 

[Johnny]

Part of the reason this is taking so long is that I just don't have the courage at the moment to drill into this...

Hmmm, I can see why.  That's one really nice looking instrument!!!!  :hello2:

 

[Danuda]

Carved top VIP's are pretty.  I just can't stomach the cost associated with them.  Love yours though.

 

[AutoBat]

Carved top VIP's are pretty.  I just can't stomach the cost associated with them.  Love yours though.

Protip: buy one secondhand & don't be choosy about the finish

 

[pabloman]

+1      Sometimes you can get lucky and have one fall into your lap. One thats been dyed and dusted with satin Deft. Flame maple on BK. I cant wait to start that one.  :headbang1: