Classic Metallic finishes vs Modern Metallic Finishes

[phangtonpower]

I was wondering if there is a difference in the way it's sprayed on. A lot of people recommend dusting on nitro metallics like lake placid blue, but what about newer metallic nitro paints. I have a nitro metal flake transparent blue I'm going to be using used for cars.
http://cdn.snsimg.carview.co.jp/minkara/parts/000/005/264/148/5264148/p1.jpg?ct=9fc17a795223
I live in Japan and most auto paint is Nitro/acrylic. I don't think car guys have time to be dusting and layers of clear.

here is a link for some dude using a diffrent color same brand and he isn't dusting it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_uEx9qY9RE

Do you still have to dust it on?
Maybe the flake is a lot smaller?

I've never used metallics before so I don't know the best way going about it.

The guy in this video doesn't dust it on and seems to get good even coverage minimizing orange peel at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB_MtpaMYaY

Guess I can only post links.

I've seen a few other car videos where they don't dust on also

 

[bagman67]

A lot of what gets used on cars in production body shops in the States is not lacquer, but instead a catalyzed two-part product that you can lay on in one wet coat and call it a day.  This may also be true in Japan.  But for the small timers in the US, and as you indicate, in Japan, rattle-can acrylic lacquer (compatible with nitrocellulose) is widely available. 


Production shops also use a catalyzed clearcoat because, as you note, they don't have time to endlessly lay down clear coats. The stuff is ready to wet-sand and buff out in less than a day.  But this catalyzed products require major protection to use safely and are intolerant of error.


The general advise is to dust on metallics and build slowly without touching the metallic coat between dustings so you avoid orange peel.  Some guy in a video on Youtube may demonstrate a technique they have arrived at to get an acceptable result, but your mileage will often vary.  My recommendation is to direct your questions to the manufacturer, rather than to us, although a few of us are quite knowledgeable (not me, but some of us, meaning mostly forum member Tonar).

Whatever else you do, you should work on a piece of scrap first to verify whether your proposed finishing schedule and your own technique will yield the desired results.

 

[phangtonpower]

A lot of what gets used on cars in production body shops in the States is not lacquer, but instead a catalyzed two-part product that you can lay on in one wet coat and call it a day.  This may also be true in Japan.  But for the small timers in the US, and as you indicate, in Japan, rattle-can acrylic lacquer (compatible with nitrocellulose) is widely available. 


Production shops also use a catalyzed clearcoat because, as you note, they don't have time to endlessly lay down clear coats. The stuff is ready to wet-sand and buff out in less than a day.  But this catalyzed products require major protection to use safely and are intolerant of error.


The general advise is to dust on metallics and build slowly without touching the metallic coat between dustings so you avoid orange peel.  Some guy in a video on Youtube may demonstrate a technique they have arrived at to get an acceptable result, but your mileage will often vary.  My recommendation is to direct your questions to the manufacturer, rather than to us, although a few of us are quite knowledgeable (not me, but some of us, meaning mostly forum member Tonar).
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[/size]Whatever else you do, you should work on a piece of scrap first to verify whether your proposed finishing schedule and your own technique will yield the desired results.

On another Forum, a poster mentioned that the guy in the first video is dusting, but it looks to be at a closer distance than what people recommend, which would be 2 to almost 4 feet away I have read on reranch! If the first video is considered dusting, than that's the way I usually spray anyway

I have been practicing on a piece of sugi since any kind of furniture grade wood like ash is hard to find, has to be ordered, and pretty expensive. I asked warmoth to send some scrap, but they couldn't. My practice runs have turned out ok so far. That's why I've been a little confused on what they recommend on reranch.

 

[bagman67]

Operating a rattle can from 2-4 feet away is crazy for dusting.  You might be a little more cautious than the guy in your video, but no need to stand THAT far away.  You're just wasting paint by blowing it into the atmosphere at that point.  If your technique is working on your sample then you should be okay with the real thing.  Note that if you are painting an ash body, you won't get a decent glossy finish if you don't fill the grain. 

 

[Cagey]

No kidding. And at the cost of rattle can paint, you could buy a permanent spray rig by the time you're done, you'd go through so much of it.

Usually for dusting, you just make faster passes at the target so the material doesn't have time to accumulate to a wet coat like you normally want. Shooting from 100 miles away not only wastes most of the paint, what little does accidentally get on the target may not adhere properly, if at all.

At the risk of repetition, practice is the key.

 

[phangtonpower]

Operating a rattle can from 2-4 feet away is crazy for dusting.  You might be a little more cautious than the guy in your video, but no need to stand THAT far away.  You're just wasting paint by blowing it into the atmosphere at that point.  If your technique is working on your sample then you should be okay with the real thing.  Note that if you are painting an ash body, you won't get a decent glossy finish if you don't fill the grain.

That's what I figured especially since those cans are around 10+ bucks.  Also glad to hear about the gloss finish not being so glossy. I really want a semigloss finish.

No kidding. And at the cost of rattle can paint, you could buy a permanent spray rig by the time you're done, you'd go through so much of it.

Usually for dusting, you just make faster passes at the target so the material doesn't have time to accumulate to a wet coat like you normally want. Shooting from 100 miles away not only wastes most of the paint, what little does accidentally get on the target may not adhere properly, if at all.

At the risk of repetition, practice is the key.

I'd love to buy a rig but everything cost a little more in Japan. Plus I have no space. My back yard is only about 6 foot wide. Best I can do is a small airbrush rig, but way too small for a Bass.

 

[Cagey]

I wasn't suggesting you buy a rig, I was just making a point about the cost of wasted paint, especially when using "rattle cans".

But, as long as we're on it, something to consider is one of the HVLP rigs available now. They're small, easy to use/maintain, inexpensive relative to the traditional compressor setups, low on overspray (wasted material) and do a fantastic job. I use one of these units, and couldn't be happier.

The downside, if you can call it that, of such a thing is that regular compressors are good for other things besides painting, while the turbine unit of a dedicated HVLP rig like that has no other use. Another downside of that particular unit is you don't have a variety of paint guns available, so some things are more difficult. "Burst" finishes come to mind, or small detail work. It's not a limitation of HVLP in general, just of that unit.

But, for what a typical professional guitar paint job costs, it only takes a couple instruments to pay for one of those. And if space is a problem, they're tailor made for you. The low overspray lets you work in a small area, and the unit itself only has a footprint of about a foot. You can stash the whole rig under the kitchen sink if you want to.

 

[phangtonpower]

Just an update.
This is how it Turned out. I did a really light coat of white primer, a couple of light coats of color, and about 7 coats of clear. 7 coats of clears started burying the grain so I stopped. I used a mat finish, so I'm not gonna wet sand or anything after it dries. Not perfect, but no really bad orange peel or anything. The metal flake is hard to see unless your really looking at it. Probably due to the mat finish. Didn't really want a flake finish anyway, it's just what they had for the color I wanted.


You can see the neck that's gonna go on in the back.

 

[stratamania]

It doesn't look like you have used a grain filler.

Which looks OK as I think the grain showing through can look good. But you might want to consider that overtime that paint will potentially shrink or go deeper into the grain.  I'm not sure if that was what was intended.

 

[phangtonpower]

It doesn't look like you have used a grain filler.

Which looks OK as I think the grain showing through can look good. But you might want to consider that overtime that paint will potentially shrink or go deeper into the grain.  I'm not sure if that was what was intended.

That was intended

 

[stratamania]

Then in that case, well done it looks good

 

[ByteFrenzy]

Me like. A lot. But then, I'm a sucker for finishes that put the underlying grain in the spotlight...

 

[phangtonpower]

It doesn't look like you have used a grain filler.

Which looks OK as I think the grain showing through can look good. But you might want to consider that overtime that paint will potentially shrink or go deeper into the grain.  I'm not sure if that was what was intended.

Actually you're right. It's only been drying for a few days and the white in the grain is slightly starting to show. Still looks fine as it looks more silver and goes with the metal flake. It also shows a little contrast. If it gets too bad I can always re-do it, but probably not  :icon_tongue:

Me like. A lot. But then, I'm a sucker for finishes that put the underlying grain in the spotlight...

Thanks. Wanted to do something different.

 

[fdesalvo]

Really beautiful color and cheers for trying something new!