Cable length

[Neo Fender]

I’ve been using a 10’ cable for years which is fine for Madison Square Basement but I’m thinking of replacing it with a 15’ cable.  I’m thinking 20’ may be too long, unless I was working on stage which I haven’t done since high school and likely never will again.  Is the additional length and the corresponding changes to capacitance, impedance, reactance, etc. really much of a factor or just folklore?  I guess I could do some A/B comparisons but I’m sure material and construction are influences as well, so I wanted to gather the consensus of others with bionic ears.  Thanks.

 

[bagman67]

I have a basket of cables I pull from whenever I plug in.  Some are 8' or 10', some 18', one is 25', and I cannot hear a lick of difference among them, all other factors being equal (same room in my house, same guitar, same amp settings).

 

[pabloman]

Get a 20ft. coil cable. A good one. You'll love it.

 

[Re-Pete]

There is a theory about cable length. Cables do add resistance, I think. Too much resistance & you get signal degradation. But you're talking lengths far above what most guitarists would want for their guitar cable. Signal boost buffers &/or active pickups fix that if you are playing stadiums.

The only time in recent memory I looked at that theory was when I wanted to have the amp head in my home studio room, but the cabinet in another room & needed to know the length vs. cable AWG gauge for my optimal length of cable. I just didn't want to buy a cable that was too resistant or too long & waste money. Turned out I had plenty of scope both in length & gauge.

I'm comfortable with a 15' length of guitar cable. Home studio, practice playing.

 

[line6man]

There is a theory about cable length. Cables do add resistance, I think. Too much resistance & you get signal degradation.

The resistance is fractions of an Ohm. You don't need to even bother thinking about that. It won't have any influence on anything. The concern, however, is for capacitance, which does make a difference.

As far as how much of a difference capacitance makes, that mainly comes down to signal impedance, and the length of the cable. Going from 10 feet to 20 feet is not a big deal, and for most guitars, it sounds fine.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Interesting.  I have a Visual Sound VS-XO pedal that has internal buffers.  I run a 10 foot cable to my board that has eight pedals and then 15ft to my amp.  With no other change than the buffer on or off the difference is noticeable to me.  Not very scientific but I can tell the difference for sure.  Also, when a cat is in the room there is an absence of lower mids….who knew?

 

[line6man]

Interesting.  I have a Visual Sound VS-XO pedal that has internal buffers.  I run a 10 foot cable to my board that has eight pedals and then 15ft to my amp.  With no other change than the buffer on or off the difference is noticeable to me.  Not very scientific but I can tell the difference for sure.  Also, when a cat is in the room there is an absence of lower mids….who knew?

Yeah, buffers make a big difference! When you lower the output impedance, the frequency cutoff of the filter (from the cable) shifts up. Another factor that sometimes comes into play is that the buffer will provide a constant input impedance that is higher or lower than the gear that you normally feed into.

 

[SHOOTOUT!]

Capacitance and pickup resonant frequency:

http://www.shootoutguitarcables.com/guitar-cables-explained/capacitance-resonant-frequency.html

More capacitance = lower resonant frequency and more high end roll off.

Cheers,

Marc, Director
Shootout Guitar Cables, UK

 

[bagman67]

Marc, welcome!  And thanks for the reference.  Yours appears to be a very informative site.


In your estimation, is it fair to say that for someone who is using low capacitance cables, cable length changes from 3 or 4 meters to 7 or 8 meters (all other factors remaining unchanged) will be unlikely to cause significant roll-off of higher audio frequencies?


Also, is there a practical way to measure cable capacitance for cables you already have on hand?

 

[pabloman]

That's why PRS made the sweet switch for Carlos when he started using wireless.

 

[SHOOTOUT!]

Marc, welcome!  And thanks for the reference.  Yours appears to be a very informative site.


In your estimation, is it fair to say that for someone who is using low capacitance cables, cable length changes from 3 or 4 meters to 7 or 8 meters (all other factors remaining unchanged) will be unlikely to cause significant roll-off of higher audio frequencies?


Also, is there a practical way to measure cable capacitance for cables you already have on hand?

Thank you, I try and think I am getting there ;O)

Well say 4 metres x 80pf = 320pF and 8 metres x 80pf = 640pF with 80pF being in the very low-low capacitance region of cables, can move the peak resonant frequency of a single coil and roll off above that from say for example around 5kHz down to around 4kHz. The tone would get 'harsher' as 3kHz-4kHz is nails on a chalkboard region with the peak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalkboard_scraping

Also thinking about how that signal then interacts with the stuff that comes after it that might be 'peaky' in a similar area so it becomes cumulative.

From mixing guitar I find personally the 3kHz-4kHz region 'harshest'.

Up above 5kHz and below 3Khz is better, so you are in a situation where there is a harsh zone in between.

Measuring between tip and sleeve on one end of a cable's jack with a meter with capacitance measurment is I believe the way to do it... have not needed to personally. Almost all of the bulk is specified if you look hard enough and we have a table on the site... just that almost all premades fail to mention the one aspect that affects the tone! XO( ?

Cheers,

Marc.

 

[drewfx]

Back in the day Buddy Guy used to use a 50 foot cable so he could wander into the audience while playing.

I suspect the wandering into the audience part made a humongously much bigger impression on the audience than the effect of the cable on his tone did...

 

[mayfly]

I saw footage of old festival concerts where he did this.  He had a guy following him around managing the cable!  It was easily 100ft in the stuff that I saw.

He sounded pretty good as well  :headbang:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

My Line 6 Relay Wireless sounds better than any/all of my cables combined.
I'm with Bagman on not being able to tell a difference between the cables, but with a good wireless, the notice is definitely noticeable in my opinion.  A slight bit of high end is retained from what I can hear.  Part of that is that I've been playing the same guitar as my #1 for nearly 20 years.  I know "it" very well, and how it sounds in just about any rig, and can get an rough idea of what it will sound like in some rigs before I plug into them.

If I were to take any guitar and do the same, I may not yield the same results.

 

[Great Ape]

5 additional feet?! 10 additional feet?! Don't worry about it...don't even give it a thought...I doubt the
RCA pooch could hear a difference! (How's THAT for dating myself?)

 

[Cagey]

In my experience, you can hear the difference in cords, but you really have to go from one extreme to another. That is, a long cheapie vs. a short good one. Even then, it's not really that dramatic. It's not something many need to worry about these days, though. Good cords are easy enough to come by; it's not like you have to go out of your way to get something high-performance.

 

[alterbridgefan]

The planet waves cables are cheap and fantastic fwiw. My entire guitar rig is made up of them.