Body weight upcharge

[ezas]

Let me start by saying this is not a rant and I respect W's right to do business how they want and I especially respect that for most of us Warmoth is a candy store for guitar enthusiasts. So this is more of a head scratching issue for me.

I called Warmoth to ask about specifying the weight of a custom body. They explained that was fine and that it could be added to the comments section of an online order, etc.

But It's a $40 dollar charge to specify a heavy or light body. Going so far as to have me affirm that I has been informed of that.

I'm not talking about asking for a body to be X lbs or at least x lbs. Just a body that is on the heavy or light side.

A rear route on a normally top route body is $20
Insert mail-in studs $10
720 Mod $45

So choosing a body on the heavy or light side is on par with a 720 Mod for skill/effort?

Let's say it takes 15 minutes to go to the stack of bodies (which they have to do anyway for any body) and they pull off 10-20 bodies until one feels heavy compared to the others. At 15 minutes for that task, equals $160/hr for unskilled labor.

I can only conclude the cost is to discourage the practice. I think a $10 to $15 upcharge would be way more reasonable.

 

[rockskate4x]

You are paying for choice, that should be enough. I don't know if this is the way warmoth operates, but I imagine that it's the difference between a W guy just grabbing the next ash blank and trying to figure out how much a body is going to weigh before it is cut to size, routed out and finished. Again I don't know this but I bet that it is possible to mess up and end up with a slightly heavier body than expected. Warmoth has to eat these kinds of costs by putting these bodies on the showcase for a lower price than the custom builds, especially if it is something that a lot of people wouldn't ask for like a purple offset v with mini buckers or something. This small upcharge is reasonable insurance against this kind of loss of profit.

 

[Cagey]

Another issue may be that a unique body needs special handling in more than one area, so it's not just a matter of picking out the right piece in the first place.

 

[Badside]

If asking for a light body was no charge, 80% of the people would do it and then they'd be stuck with the heavy blanks... So at the end of the day, it does cost them more.

 

[ezas]

Yeah I've got not problem with an upcharge. I just find $40 to be a bit high of an upcharge. But it's a good point that some people would cry 'it's not heavy enough' or 'it's too light' and the body would end up in the showcase.

Part of MY problem is there are not a lot of rear route hardtails in the showcase where you know the weight before you purchase. If I was picking a top router Strat weight would be no issue, I could pick exactly what I want our of hundreds of bodies. But i'm looking at Musiclanders, 7/8 s-style bodies, and/or maybe a flat top LP. All the LP's are Hum/Hum router which I don't want.

I have no problem paying for choice I just find 40 upcharge on a $175 body a little  out of line. So instead I'm going to order my next body in Poplar which the Warmth wood options page says runs around 1/2lb heavier than Alder.

This is not a rant against W. It's just my suggestion that the upcharge could be more in line with other choices with upcharges.

 

[Wyliee]

A few points to consider:

1.) Availability.  Supply of extra light materials is/can be limited.  Be thankful pricing is fixed and not based on availability.  Cost could be a lot more when materials are scarce.

2.) It does take time to sort out the blanks and pull them based on special parameters. (ie extra heavy/light, one piece, three piece, etc...)  Time is money.  Any manufacturing facility needs to take that in account.

3.) Unskilled labor does not lay out the bodies and necks.  Senior staff do that to make sure the best pieces are being pulled and used in a manner to maximize yield and turn out the best product.  You wouldn't want the low man on the totem pole laying out your AAAAA flame maple body, would you?

 

[swarfrat]

I've seen some gorgeous beautiful flame and birdseye maple in gym floors. It costs money to take it out of random just like it cost money to select for it. Probably more so in proportion. I don't get the impression that Warmoth is mind numbing place to work, where if anyone sneezes it throws off the pace of the 12 guitars a second coming through the line and they have to shut the whole thing down for half an hour. But these kinds of things DO impact production. I can totally sympathize with the upcharge.

 

[ezas]

Grading? Layout? Yield? Who said anything about that?  I'm not talking about finding the lightest piece of  mahogany you have in the whole raw lumber warehouse with grain that runs counter clockwise. I'm talking about selecting a body on the heavier or lighter side from a stack of bodies/blanks that are waiting for processing.

I'm thinking more in terms of a check box like 'weight preference', and check box for heavier or lighter, and a reasonable upcharge.  A competitor thinks $10 is reasonable: "Please add $10 for pristine hand picked wood, like that suitable for clear finish."

Time? Warmoth charges $10 to install bridge inserts that I mail to them. (which means they didn't make the profit of selling me the bridge in the first place). Then someone has to process the incoming mail to index my inserts with my order, determine the right size hole for those particular inserts, set up and bore the holes, and then press in the inserts. That's $10 of work and choosing a body blank based on weight is $40?

It costs zero to specify mini humbuckers, a hard tail bridge, and a side jack, all things not typical on most most Strats. (and all things I want in my next build)

Oh well guess I'll just have to keep scratching my head about this one.

Perhaps what Warmoth can take away from this is that the upcharge is high enough that it motivated me to see what else was available from other vendors.

I hope no one takes this as 'knocking' Warmoth. I love Warmoth and I love their website, and I appreciate Wyliee taking the time to post his input.

 

[greywolf]

They spec weight on some models in the show case .. something to cosider to avoid the upcharge

 

[SkuttleFunk]

ezas - W has their value on the weight option. thier internal process may or may not be the same as a different company. since W is in business to make a profit so they can pay employees, taxes, utilities, overhead, etc ... and not a charity devoted to supplying guitarists/bassists with inexpensive materials at less than what is profitable, you have to anticipate that anything beyond a set boundary of product features will cost extra if for no other reason than the babysitting hassle of tracking a unique item matched to a specific customer. I believe if you were to actually operate a profitable guitar manufacturing business for any length of time you would clearly understand this simple business scenario

if you don't think the value is in-line with what you want to pay ... move on and don't choose it. it's pretty simple


I significantly dislike thru-body stringing on modern style basses - it's a total pita hassle that yields no significant sonic difference on a high quality built bass. still, some customers just have to have it despite my best efforts to disuade them ... so I offer it as a $150 upgrade option on a 4-string bass and a $200 option on a 5-string. does it cost me that much in parts and labor hours? no ... but the hassle factor needs to be accounted for. if you want me to add something I see no benefit to and that is a total pain to do to tolerance, the hassle factor is overcome by an alternate motivator


similarly ...  I like Ferraris ... I don't like their prices ... a Kia imported into the US can be bought new for under $15K ... Ferraris also have four wheels, an engine, and are imported into the US ... therefore since a car making competitor charges under $15K for a 'similarly featured' imported product, I demand that it be priced the same so I can buy one

pretty foolish argument, eh? not so foolish if you have no idea about each company's business model and product offerings

all the best,

R

 

[Jcurl02]

Seems like no one agrees with ezas....  Actually I do. 

I think some may have missed his point.  He isn't asking that they make a super light (or super heavy body).  He isn't asking that they make it within a certain range.  It seems all he asked for was that when the guy picks up the blank, instead of just taking the next one (which I doubt he does anyway), just pick the lightest or heaviest in the stack.  Enough said.

When I say I doubt they take the next from the stack, unless they have a FIFO system (which "W" might), then I'll bet personal pride takes over and the "W" Craftsman (and that is what they really are) probably picks the blank on what he thinks will make a best guitar (shows pride in his selection, his completed project).

I can see this getting out of hand though.  If you offer this as an "Option" then you start down a slippery slope.  What's light, what's heavy etc.  Personally I thought this would have been handled under the special notes / instructions with your order.  You could have said, "Please try to use the lightest or heaviest piece of X wood you have".  I would hope "W" would have accomodiated you and if they didn't, you probably wouldn't even have had known.

 

[AprioriMark]

With their return policies, I'd never make that an uncharged, or even undercharged option.  You can always ask in the notes, and if someone has the time to do something about it, cool.  I've asked for "a lighter weight" piece of swamp ash before a few times and been happy with the result.  If "lighter weight" meant 3 pounds and I got 4.1 (and I was somewhat unreasonable) I would complain publicly.  Those comments would float around forever, and Warmoth would get a bad name for selling bodies that were "too heavy" when a customer asked for light weight.

Just because you or I might be reasonable doesn't mean that everyone would be.  I would ALWAYS err on the side of caution with making promises, perceived or actual.

-Mark

 

[ezas]

Thanks for all the well reasoned responses, even the ones that assumed that I don't realize that Warmoth is in business to make a profit, and not to serve my one selfish need for a heavier body.

This was never an 'upsetting' issue for me. Just one of those things that make you Hmmmmm.