Blackbird Telecaster: Neck work in progress...

[stratamania]

Inserts would definitely do it, but then again the buttons are easy enough to replace.

 

[BigSteve22]

Neck jig part 2: Tension Assembly, is finally done.

This "sub-jig", mounts to the back side of the beam on the main jig, and allows the neck to be put under string tension. The assembly is made of oak to provide stiffness.

Not everything went without incident. I must have had more to drink than I thought on the day I drilled the neck mounting holes, because they were way off! Had to plug and re-drill.

The top of the tension assembly has an adjustable bridge, positioned so that it can be intonated. Rather than cut a neck pocket, the bridge is mounted to a 5/8" oak raiser, thickness planed on a jointer, to place it at the correct height. Doing it this way provides clearance for the tuners when mounted to the main jig. The assembly also has a recessed 1/4"-20 "T-nut", so it can be secured to the main jig.

The back of the assembly sports a spiffy Dangerous R6 neck plate, and a through hole to accept a hand screw.

On each side of the assembly is a maple rail to keep it aligned while working. The hand screw passes through the main jig and locks it in place.

The neck mounts to the sub-jig, and the sub-jig mounts to the main. And because the main jig rotates, the neck can be place in "playing position" to check the action.

As I said before not everything went exactly as planned. When the dust settled I was missing 1, 3mm, saddle height adjustment screw. It shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement.

I used the method suggested by Cagey to position the bridge. Kevin also made a few other suggestions which were right in line with what I had planned. I was pretty proud of myself for coming up with this little assembly. Then I caught sight if this in the background of a photo Kevin posted:

Oh well, not as original as I had first thought. I guess great minds do think alike!  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Cagey]

Good eye!

In the intellectual property litigation world, it's called "parallel development". Describes exactly that - great minds thinking alike independently. It creates problems sometimes when somebody gets a patent on something or copyrights something like music or painting, only to find someone else has already been doing what they thought they'd come up with on their own. Starts fights sometimes, mainly about who's gonna sue who and for what  :laughing7:

Incidentally, I also used oak on that little fixture, but I sandwiched it between a couple pieces of Maple die board.

 

[DangerousR6]

nice job... :icon_thumright:

 

[Logrinn]

Very nice. I like it a lot.

Now I'm getting ideas too ...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

This thread is so full of "win"!

 

[BigSteve22]

Zero Glide Nut....

So, using my new tension sub-jig, I'm now able to mount the neck, already strung up and ready to go. It will easily stay in playing position,


or lie flat to tune or adjust.

Here's a close up of the Zero Glide as it sits in place, (fret untrimmed):

The frets that come with the nut measure .035", .039", .043", & .051". According to the enclosed literature there are two additional sizes available, .024 & .057. This seems a little odd, as I'm thinking the zero fret should be the same size as all the others, and most people use pretty large frets. The SS6230's on my neck measure .047" and most would consider these rather small.

Anyway, the instructions say to try the smallest fret first and check for buzz at the first fret. I started with the .043", which is just shy of the .047" of the rest of the neck. There was no buzz at the first fret, and I could set the action to .040" on the high "E", (which is fine for me). However, in order to get the entire scale buzz free, I had to set the low "E" to nearly .060" at the 12th fret. That's unacceptable.

I swapped out the .043" and tried the .051". No first fret buzz, and I could set the entire scale below .050". Problem is, there's now a .025" gap at the first fret, which is high enough to effect intonation when playing open chords.

I believe what I need is a piece of .047" fret wire, which is apparently not available from Zero Glide. Anyone have about a 2" piece of .047" stock? Other suggestions? The relief is set to about .006" at the 7th fret. Maybe increasing the relief would help with buzzing with the .043" installed?
:help:

 

[Cagey]

The zero fret needs to be the same size or larger than what's installed for the balance of the neck. Installing a .043" high fret at the zero position when the rest of the neck is fretted with something .047" tall means you're going to have to set the bridge pretty tall just to clear the first fret, and your action will deteriorate (grow) the further down the 'board you go no matter what you do with the bridge/truss rod.

If it was me, I'd put in something slightly larger, like .050" or so. Gives you room to do maintenance down the road if necessary, but still allows for some wicked close action.

That said, if you want a piece of fretwire with a .047" crown, I've got you covered. Lemme know if you want gold or stainless and PM me an address.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The zero fret needs to be the same size or larger than what's installed for the balance of the neck. Installing a .043" high fret at the zero position when the rest of the neck is fretted with something .047" tall means you're going to have to set the bridge pretty tall just to clear the first fret, and your action will deteriorate (grow) the further down the 'board you go no matter what you do with the bridge/truss rod.

If it was me, I'd put in something slightly larger, like .050" or so. Gives you room to do maintenance down the road if necessary, but still allows for some wicked close action.

That said, if you want a piece of fretwire with a .047" crown, I've got you covered. Lemme know if you want gold or stainless and PM me an address.

Stick a 6115 in there, & you'll have plenty enough clearance over that first fret, and it'll wear like a glass slide.

 

[stratamania]

Just curious does the zero glide, have nickel fret wire or stainless. If it's nickel getting a piece of stainless from Cagey may save time later down the road in any case.

That jig is looking good.

 

[Cagey]

That jig is looking good.

It is, isn't it? Plus, the auxiliary jig for stringing it up allows the neck to be played, which I find to be invaluable. Removes a whole lotta variables and questions instantly if you bolt the neck onto something and it doesn't behave itself.

 

[stratamania]

That jig is looking good.

It is, isn't it? Plus, the auxiliary jig for stringing it up allows the neck to be played, which I find to be invaluable. Removes a whole lotta variables and questions instantly if you bolt the neck onto something and it doesn't behave itself.

Indeed the only thing it is missing is a violin bow to coax a misbehaving neck into submission...  ccasion14:

 

[BigSteve22]

The zero fret needs to be the same size or larger than what's installed for the balance of the neck. Installing a .043" high fret at the zero position when the rest of the neck is fretted with something .047" tall means you're going to have to set the bridge pretty tall just to clear the first fret, and your action will deteriorate (grow) the further down the 'board you go no matter what you do with the bridge/truss rod.

Exactly what i figured. Can't understand why ZeroGlide would supply such small frets.

If it was me, I'd put in something slightly larger, like .050" or so. Gives you room to do maintenance down the road if necessary, but still allows for some wicked close action.

Like I said, I tried the .051" but it left me with .025" clearance at the first fret. Seems like that's enough to affect intonation playing "Cowboy" chords.

That said, if you want a piece of fretwire with a .047" crown, I've got you covered. Lemme know if you want gold or stainless and PM me an address.

I was hoping you might say that. I sent you my address, thanks!

Just curious does the zero glide, have nickel fret wire or stainless. If it's nickel getting a piece of stainless from Cagey may save time later down the road in any case.

Pretty sure they're nickle.

And thanks to all for the kind word regarding the jig. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out too.

 

[Cagey]

When you say the .051" zero fret left you with .025" clearance at the first fret, what exactly are you measuring? Is that the space between the top of the 1st fret and the bottom of the string? If so, and you have .047" crown height frets installed, perhaps the nut isn't seated properly. It should end up deep enough that when the zero fret is installed, the bottom of the fret is flush with the fretboard. If that's the case, then in a perfect world you should only have a .004" gap between the first fret and the bottom of the strings.

 

[BigSteve22]

That's .025" from the bottom of the string to the crown of the fret.

Look at it this way: My JM, set to ≈.040" at the 12th fret, measures about ≈.013" clearance at the first. We'll use that as a base line. Adding the additional .004" for the difference in fret size gives you ≈.017". The Tele neck set to around .050" at the 12th. Using the same ratio for the difference in clearance between the first and twelfth fret, 0.325:1, the .010 difference at the 12th would add another .00325" at the 1st, for a total of just over .020 at the first. Given that I'm using a feeler gauge, I could very well be off by ≈.005. Make sense?  :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

Yes, but let's work in a perfect world for a moment, where the strings are parallel to a perfectly straight neck.  That .013" clearance at the first fret on the JM is set by the nut slot. In other words, the bottom of the slot is cut FretCrownHeight + StringClearance up from the surface of the fretboard. On the Tele neck, that clearance is supposed to be set by the zero fret crown height. So, if #0 FretCrownHeight = .051" and #1 FretCrownHeight = .047", you should have StringClearance = .004"

 

[BigSteve22]

Yes, but let's work in a perfect world for a moment, where the strings are parallel to a perfectly straight neck.  That .013" clearance at the first fret on the JM is set by the nut slot. In other words, the bottom of the slot is cut FretCrownHeight + StringClearance up from the surface of the fretboard. On the Tele neck, that clearance is supposed to be set by the zero fret crown height. So, if #0 FretCrownHeight = .051" and #1 FretCrownHeight = .047", you should have StringClearance = .004"

I see where you're going, but that would also assume that you could set the action to .013" at the 12th, which of course you can't. How much higher than the height of the first fret do you generally cut the bottom of the nut slot? Is it the same across all six strings?

 

[Cagey]

I know the strings will have a rise to them to allow room for vibratory travel and the neck will have some relief as well, I just wanted to disregard that to make the math easier and the mental picture clearer.

Because of that vibration clearance requirement, the clearance heights may or may not be the same. I generally try to start with the high E about .010" off the first fret, and end up at the low E about .012"-.014" up. That's more clearance than some luthiers would allow, but a lot less than probably 98% of the guitars out there, since tragically few of them have been blessed with a proper setup. I'm splitting the difference between very good and perfect to allow for a bit of wear. Factory slots are always cut shallow to allow for the setup that never comes, and most techs are afraid to go too far for fear of blowing the nut and having to recut a new one. Somebody says they'll install a new nut for $25-$40, they have to get it done quick so they're either not doing a very good job, using a pre-slotted factory nut or working for next to nothing. Getting the nut right is tedious and time-consuming. Hell, I've probably got $300 in tools specifically for the nut, that's how critical it is. The zero nut thing never being accepted here due to its early appearance on budget instruments is something of a tragedy for players, techs and luthiers alike.

 

[BigSteve22]

Thanks for the run down. Seems maybe the .013" I measured was pretty close. That's what I'm shooting for. The nut you cut for me feels great and I figure I'd try to get as close to that as I can. Guess we'll find out...

....The zero nut thing never being accepted here due to its early appearance on budget instruments is something of a tragedy for players, techs and luthiers alike.

I feel the same way. I absolutely loved the feel of the mid 60's Gretsch Anniversary model I used to play. I think the zero fret was a big part of why it played so nice. This ZeroGlide is a chance for me to see if I'm right. If not, I have a Tusq on standby.

 

[Cagey]

Always good to have a backup plan  :laughing7: