Best route for Floyd with DTuna?

[cabo5150]

Thinking about building an 80's shredder.
Going soloist body but undecided on which floyd route to get. Prefer to get recessed but will that work with a dtuna? Would the non recessed (angled) route work for the dtuna?

Thanks.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The non-recessed route with angled neck pocket seems to be the choice on the sig model.

 

[line6man]

Recessed is always better, IMO, but if you do it that way, you will have to do the additional routing yourself.

 

[AutoBat]

You'll need to block the trem from floating anyhow, so I'd go the non-recessed w/angled neck pocket.
If you require the ability to pull up on the trem you'll want a recessed route, some sort of trem setter facsimile, and you'll need to route the additional space for the d tuna.

 

[line6man]

You'll need to block the trem from floating anyhow, so I'd go the non-recessed w/angled neck pocket.
If you require the ability to pull up on the trem you'll want a recessed route, some sort of trem setter facsimile, and you'll need to route the additional space for the d tuna.

I suppose a non-recessed trem could work with the Dtuna without a tremlock, if you end up setting up the trem to dive only. Depending on whether or not you like to pull up, this could be simpler and less expensive.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I bought a D-Tuna and it didn't work worth a damn.

You're better off without one. A recessed rout and a "trem-setter" device is far more useful.

 

[line6man]

A recessed rout and a "trem-setter" device is far more useful.

How so? Apples and oranges.

 

[cabo5150]

Thanks for the input.
I still have some options to consider.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I bought a D-Tuna and it didn't work worth a damn.

You're better off without one. A recessed rout and a "trem-setter" device is far more useful.

Better Yet, Tremol-No.

I loosen the fine tuner on the low E to D when in hard tail or dive only mode.

When its tune to E, and left in free floating, you don't even know it's there. 

I had the tremsetter, never felt "natural" to me, just felt like a door on a double hinge.

 

[Cagey]

I had the tremsetter, never felt "natural" to me, just felt like a door on a double hinge.

Same here. Had one back when they first came out, and it only worked if you spent a million years adjusting it, then it felt funny anyway. Waste of time, money and effort if you ask me.

 

[Dan025]

I had the tremsetter, never felt "natural" to me, just felt like a door on a double hinge.

Same here. Had one back when they first came out, and it only worked if you spent a million years adjusting it, then it felt funny anyway. Waste of time, money and effort if you ask me.

there is a better design that ibanez uses over sees. but gibson supposedly has a patent on it and doesn't actually produce the product just to be jerks so it's not availablie in the states. it doesn't necessarily feel more natural but the tremsetter construction is kinda flimsy so it might. the design is the same concept but work reverse of the tremsetter, it's a spring loaded plunger that has some preload that the trem block rests on and you use the normal trem springs to pull it up against the plunger. this way it should feel like a blocked trem untill you pull up with a little pressure but if you finely balance the springs you should be able to make it almost invisible where it adds stability and not too much of a "notch" that it wants to fall into but for a d-tuna to function you will need a noticeable notch feel. the advantage of this layout over the tremsetter is better adjustability and more strait forward setup. the problem is the ibanez part is excessively expensive. there is a german part that was available on ebay that was only $35 with the same design but i couldn't find it the last i looked.

 

[Cagey]

Actually, if you get a good set of tuners and well-made nut, detuning/retuning manually isn't a big issue. Where people run into problems stems more from tuners that have too much backlash or too many winds, or a nut that hangs the string up. That means staying away from Klusons or any other kind of non-locking tuner, and spending the time/money to get a good nut.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I didn't mean an actual "Tremsetter". Those things suck. I was referring to one of the devices available to set the bridge to dive-only, so that changing to Drop-D tuning does not cause everything to go whacky. I use "trem-stops", and there is of course the "Tremol-No" product.

In any case, the D-Tuna didn't work worth a crap when I had one.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

A decent set of tuners and properly cut nut for drop D execution at the headstock are negated by the use of a double locking system.

It's also neat to hear feedback on the D-tuna.  I always wondered how that was supposed to work on a floating trem.  Also, did 80s shredding machines have D-tunas?

 

[Pelagaard]

I think "D-tuna" was the name of someone's guitar tech back in the 80's.

 

[cabo5150]

A decent set of tuners and properly cut nut for drop D execution at the headstock are negated by the use of a double locking system.

It's also neat to hear feedback on the D-tuna.  I always wondered how that was supposed to work on a floating trem.  Also, did 80s shredding machines have D-tunas?

Good point, and no.

I typically only use Sperzels but I use the double locking with my Floyds.
I've decided to go recessed and make it dive only. I have trem-setters on my other floyds and the difference in feel never bothered me.

 

[Dan025]

Actually, if you get a good set of tuners and well-made nut, detuning/retuning manually isn't a big issue. Where people run into problems stems more from tuners that have too much backlash or too many winds, or a nut that hangs the string up. That means staying away from Klusons or any other kind of non-locking tuner, and spending the time/money to get a good nut.

the biggest issue I had with full floating terms is that the factory often uses only 2 springs and on a long scale guitar with .010's the strings wind up being stiff enough to make the guitar a pain to bring up to tune. it takes some guestimation in how sharp you have to start while the other strings come up to tune so you done make the tuned strings flat. that and the cheap bridges that are made from zinc and can't hold a knife edge due to the lack of hardness. all really related to cheap guitars for the masses.

but the tremsetter/lockout discussion is more related to the d-tuna than proper setup. you need something to keep the guitar from going sharp when you drop tension on the low string.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I use 4 springs with my trems, they don't move as much in free floating mode that way, they stay in tune better.

The Ibanez version was called the "Back Stop", and it worked in the same fashion as the Tremsetter and ZRS Trem.  They still don't feel natural to me.  I also don't like the proprietary engineering of the ZRS, you can't use any other product in conjuction with it.

For me, and OFR or Gotoh with a Tremo-no does everything I need with minimal very quick adjustment.  I can go from A-440 freely floating to dive only or hard tail in Dropped D betwen songs very fast.

 

[Cagey]

I use 4 springs with my trems, they don't move as much in free floating mode that way, they stay in tune better.

That's been my experience as well. You also get a more reliable return to neutral.

Some complain that it makes the wang bar tighter, but I don't know how that could be. If there's a 110 pound pull on the strings, there needs to be a corresponding 110 pound pull on the springs, or the bridge won't float. 1 spring, 10 springs, it doesn't matter. It's a balancing act. You can't have one side pull harder than the other unless you're one of those who's set up the bridge to bang into the body so it's in "dive only" mode.

And if you want to see how unreliable a return to neutral can be, get yourself a Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibrato tailpiece, or a Bigsby. They only have ONE spring. Tune one of those bitches up and if you're sensitive to tuning, you better not touch that wang bar.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I use 4 springs with my trems, they don't move as much in free floating mode that way, they stay in tune better.

That's been my experience as well. You also get a more reliable return to neutral.

Some complain that it makes the wang bar tighter, but I don't know how that could be. If there's a 110 pound pull on the strings, there needs to be a corresponding 110 pound pull on the springs, or the bridge won't float. 1 spring, 10 springs, it doesn't matter. It's a balancing act. You can't have one side pull harder than the other unless you're one of those who's set up the bridge to bang into the body so it's in "dive only" mode.

And if you want to see how unreliable a return to neutral can be, get yourself a Jaguar/Jazzmaster vibrato tailpiece, or a Bigsby. They only have ONE spring. Tune one of those bitches up and if you're sensitive to tuning, you better not touch that wang bar.

So true, and most guitars that utilize a Bigsby have a headstock without a straight string pull.  If you had a guitar with a straight string pull, locking tuners, and roller saddles, you might with the grace of God get it to stay somewhat in tune.  Perhaps Bigsby should consider applying the Trem-setter principle to the inner workings of their trem.  Maybe if the Bigsby had the "Double-Hinge" principle applied to it, it just might work.  The gear housing that currently makes it up could have the spring loaded with tension in one direction, and the opposite housing with the tension in the other direction.  Just a thought, but even then, the "detent" would make noise, especially in a hollow bodied guitar.