Are the frets levelled by Warmoth?

[TheDude]

Hi There,

this is my first post here.
First of all I need to say sorry for my bad english (I am from Germany).

Because of the EUR/$ rates it so cheap that I will get my Warmoth guitar for the price of a Fender Mex right now. Including Taxes and Shippingfees!
So Idecieded to buy a Warmoth.
Right now I am planning my Telecaster Thinline.
After weeks of thinking and deciding what parts and colors are the best for me I have got question:

Neck: Does warmoth slot the nut and level the frets if I buy some of their completely finished Necks? Or do I have to do this on my own?

Its very important because if they don`t I need to buy some files.

Maybe I need some more Tips of you. Then I will let you know.

Thanks
TheDude

Btw: Of course I am going to post some pictures of my new Telly after it is here and assembled...

 

[jimh]

Hey Dude

Welcome to Warmoth.

Neck: Does warmoth slot the nut and level the frets if I buy some of their completely finished Necks? Or do I have to do this on my own?

Yes.  Warmoth do slot the nut.  Usually cut for 9's or 10's.  If you want to use higher gauge strings you may need to open out the slots a little.  There are plenty of threads on this forum which explain what to do, but if you cant find the information you need, just ask.

The frets are usually fine on the necks (mine were excellent).  Depending on the neck you decide to go for, and the finish they use on it you may have some lacquer on the frets, which will feel funny when you first play, and may make you think that you have a bad neck or dead spots.  You will need to carefully scrape the lacquer off each fret, or you can just keep on playing and the lacquer will wear off on its own.  Then the frets will feel lovely and smooth.

Have fun doing the build, and don't forget to ask questions here if you get stuck.  You wont regret it.

Jim.
P.S.  Dont forget the pictures.

 

[TheDude]

Hey Jimh,

thank you so much.

I am sure there will be several questions coming up after my Warmoth package arrived.

Now it will take 1 1/2 weeks until I got all the money together to do the order. I feel like I am running out of patience...

See you then

TheDude

 

[jimh]

I feel like I am running out of patience...

Ha Ha.......It doesnt get any easier.  You better start saving up for builds number 2 and 3....... :icon_thumright:

 

[DocNrock]

+1 to that!

 

[chuck7]

I don't know how much you have read up around the forum here, but if you are doing a custom order with finishing included, you will get a time frame of 10 to 12 weeks from the time you order until your gear is shipped.  Several people doing builds recently, myself included, had their parts shipped well short of that time frame, but be prepared for it   If you order off the showcase, don't have them do the painting, etc, it will reduce the time significantly.  Welcome to the board and congrats on choosing to build your own guitar!

 

[simple]

Welcome to the board!

No, the frets are not leveled on any Warmoth neck. Warmoth is very good at getting the fingerboards straight and true which means when the frets are installed, they often don't need leveled either because the customer's playing style doesn't require super low action or Warmoth simply got it that close. We would estimate that about half of the Warmoth customer base has their frets leveled. Warmoth always recommends being prepared to need one.

Removing the finish off of your frets by simply playing on them risks chiping the finish further than just off the frets. Taping off between the frets and using fine steel wool on the crown of the fret is the best way to go.

 

[stubhead]

I can only speak from my experience, as someone who at times has used Warmoth necks for sweaty, four-sets-a-night bar gigs. I find the frets to be level enough to play on for me, using fairly average action height: 3/64" treble, 4/64" bass at the 12th fret. However, I always have had to round off the fret tips a little bit, or they start slicing my first & little fingers on the inside of the knuckles when my hands get soft from sweating. I slide a lot so I have to be picky about that. They're at least as level as Fenders, Ibanezes, Gibsons etc. unless you get a factory custom shop setup to begin with (which is what makes a $2500 Gibson into a $5000 Gibson, in my opinion... :toothy12 Toothiness of fret ends varies all over the place, even within a single manufacturer - some $200 guitars are way better than some $2000 guitars. :icon_scratch: A lot of people do play Warmoths right out of the box with no apparent problem.

Even though I have played gigs with just a slightly touched-up Warmoth, they always end up feeling much better to me after I've done a whole level, crown and polish job, but I am really picky about it. I think if more players treated themselves to a full fret finishing, they'd be happier and play better because they'd practice more because they'd love their guitar even more. :cool01: As though, they don't already love their guitars enough....

 

[TheDude]

I don't know how much you have read up around the forum here, but if you are doing a custom order with finishing included, you will get a time frame of 10 to 12 weeks from the time you order until your gear is shipped.  Several people doing builds recently, myself included, had their parts shipped well short of that time frame, but be prepared for it   If you order off the showcase, don't have them do the painting, etc, it will reduce the time significantly.  Welcome to the board and congrats on choosing to build your own guitar!

Hi Chuck,

yes I am aware of that. That`s why I order off the showcase. I found a nice finished and ready to ship neck and body.
I just hope its still available then...

Thanks to Gregg and Stubhead.
I am very picky about my frets too. Thats why I asked.
After a good fretjob the guitar plays so much better and smoother. And when levelled right with a fret levelling stone
the Intonation is perfect. So for me its the only way to go.

I must say its not my first guitar that I build. 10 Years ago I was in Formentera, thats a balearic island in europe,
and they have a guitar building school there called formentera-guitars. You can build your Instrument of choice
in a 3 week course. From the scratch (woodblock). You even wind and wax your own pickups to your likes and needs.
That was a fine experience. And the Instrument i built there (PRS style with glued in neck) is from a fantastic quality.
I learned so many things about guitars like the bookmatching process and these things.
But now i dont have the time for that. I am too busy.

So I decieded to give warmoth a try.
And after reading some reviews and watching the pics of the bodywoods in the showcase and the forum here, I am sure that my warmoth guitar
will be in same quality as my Formentera guitar.

I dont post the link to that page because its a Warmoth forum here. And I dont want to spam it. But if someone wants to know more about that, just write me a message.

So thanks again to everybody and I am sure i will need some help from you. Although I already built a guitar, but hey thats ten years ago and I forgot a lot.

Regards

TheDude

 

[-CB-]

Fret leveling should always be preceded by fret SEATING.  I know Warmoth does an incredible job at it.... but frets are frets and wood is wood and occasionally you might see a fret go high, that simply needs seating.

Unless the wood has expanded and such, the frets, seated properly, should be just fine for almost all purposes.  The only "issue" I've ever seen were slightly unseated frets, and so far (knock tone-wood) I've never had to "level" the frets (just clean off finish)

 

[TheDude]

Hi CB,

I have to disagree.
Fretlevelling is an important process. But it comes after the frets are seated properly. That are two differend processes.

If you level the frets right, every fret from the neck to the body should be a little (just a very little) lower then the one before. In that case you can have the neck nearly straight, not compound. Now you can make the action very low. And you will never have any problems with stringbuzz!
Otherwise every fret has the same height and you have to compound the neck more.

Here is the way to do this:

You take the fretlevellingstone to the first 3-4 frets and file them a few times. Then you go one fret further and so on. To check if one fret is at the right height, you go to the one before let the stone glide to the next fret, direction to body. Now you should here a click. Then its right levelled and you can go one fret further. You have to make the clickcheck every fret.
But be careful, this is a very finetunig process and if it`s not done properly you can ruin your frets!
After that you have to cut the nut and make the clickcheck with the nutfile and the first fret.

Thats the way I was taught in Formentera.
In the attachment you can see a fretlevellingstone. Its a little smaller then the fretboard.

Sorry for my bad english, I can`t explain it better because of my limited english skills.

Nice regards,

TheDude

 

[-CB-]

I have to disagree. Fretlevelling is an important process. But it comes after the frets are seated properly.

It must be your language skills, but thats exactly what I said.

On the frets being gradually lower - NO.  It can be done that way, but why?  With a straight neck and straight fret tops, the natural relief of the neck under tension is more than adequate to make buzz free playing work just fine.... right down to the geometric limit of the strings and neck radius. 

That is - you can get 2/64 of an inch action, buzz free on a neck done traditionally, but the geometric limit for any bending at all is about 3.5/64 (on a 12 inch radius neck).  Its a bit higher on smaller radius necks, and perhaps a bit lower (half a 64th of an inch maybe) on compound W radius necks.  Traditional leveling works just fine in this regard.

Even PLEK does the leveling in a traditional way, compensating for bumps in the fretboard.

The thing we do agree on is - SEAT the frets first, then level if needed.  On a new Warmoth neck - I'd venture to say quite nearly all "leveling" people think they need are actually a fret that has risen a bit and needs a good reseat to make right (and its easy too).

 

[TheDude]

I have to disagree. Fretlevelling is an important process. But it comes after the frets are seated properly.

It must be your language skills, but thats exactly what I said.

Oops, sorry.
I read your post again, your are right. I did not know the word preced.

And yes. there are different ways to level the frets.
I just described the way I learned it.
Of course there is the traditional way to level the frets.
But with the gradually lower frets you can have a straighter neck and so you can lower the action a bit more.

Nice regards,

TD

 

[GoDrex]

This makes sense to me, BUT - by the time your got to the 22nd fret, wouldn't it have to be pretty flat, compared to the 1st fret?

 

[-CB-]

Well yes, yes it would....

Do the math.  Say each fret is only .002 lower than the one next to it.

The limit for good fretting is a fret height of about .025 above the board.  Less than that and your finger cant press enough to get a clean note to play.  So, if fret #22 was at its LOWEST at .025, add another 21x .002 and you've got a really tall fret at fret #1.  That would be something like.... .025 plus .042 or about .067 inches.  Humongous.  Even if the frets were only .001 different, you'd still have full size jumbo frets at the nut, and barely playable up at the other end of the neck.  Its not a workable way to do things, especially since the bridge can be elevated.....

In practice, a straight neck is relatively easy to level using straight tools.  Just make sure all the frets are seated fully first....

 

[GoDrex]

I wonder what the measurement was on my old Gibson V - - those frets were FLAT. I wish I never sold that thing...

 

[TheDude]

This makes sense to me, BUT - by the time your got to the 22nd fret, wouldn't it have to be pretty flat, compared to the 1st fret?

No, the difference should be so small that you don`t even notice it at the 22. fret.
You cannot measure the diference. Just check it by the click. As soon you hear a (very gently) click by sliding the stone from one fret to the next it`s levelled right.

Nice regards,
TD

 

[GoDrex]

22 frets all progressively smaller and the difference can't be measured? Um... sounds like a crock o' bull to me. :icon_scratch:

 

[-CB-]

I've got an L6s set up like a "LP Custom - fretless wonder".  Playing is great, bending... sometimes not as nice, but then again I prefer bridge cables for strings.

 

[TheDude]

22 frets all progressively smaller and the difference can't be measured? Um... sounds like a crock o' bull to me. :icon_scratch:

Hi,

I meant the difference between two frets. Of course it is able to measure, but I don`t think that we got the tools for that.