Anyone re-radius a fretboard?

[beltjones]

Well I went for it. Here's the neck before getting started.

https://i.imgur.com/9ecAf0k.jpg

I used a busted up old soldering iron to heat the frets before pulling them. The fret slots didn't chip out, but they were pretty big, which is weird. I've done glue-in refrets before and the fret slots didn't seem so huge.

https://i.imgur.com/jdGpzBA.jpg

Getting started with the radiusing...

https://i.imgur.com/7rbg5bT.jpg

Once the radiusing was complete I still had quite a bit of space between the top of the fretboard and the side dots, maybe 3/64ths, so sanding into them was never much of a risk.

https://i.imgur.com/zBDNz0e.jpg

Some vintage-sized frets (but stainless, of course).

https://i.imgur.com/04PixUa.jpg

And we're all hammered in. I ran some super glue down the frets after hammering them in because, like I said, the slots were pretty wide and I wanted to make sure they seated firmly. We'll see if more work needs to be done to seat them before I level, drown, dress, and polish.

https://i.imgur.com/vfsqPJI.jpg

 

[TBurst Std]

Ok, I just spoke to Warmoth (I think his name was Justin - really nice and helpful guy), and he confirmed the thing about the side dots. He said the side dots aren't just superficial - they actually extend like half an inch into the fretboard. If I radius too much the result will be little darts on the side of the fretboard where the side dot material is showing through.

A possible solution: ask for side dot reposition for a scalloped neck. I know I did for a neck coming this Thursday.  We will see how it comes along.

 

[stratamania]

Did you join the forum to argue or learn?

Well, there we have it a construction limitation as proposed. If it is something you really wanted to do on a Modern neck you could order one with just fret slots, no frets or side dots and customize away.

Well, except your proposal was that it was due to lack of demand, not due to a construction limitation. You eventually backed into a point about tooling or set-up, but that wasn't exactly right either.

Also, you're forgetting a key part about doing this on a neck that I already have, which is that it negates the need to buy a new neck. If wanted to buy a new neck I could quite simply order one that is already radiused at 7.25".

Regardless, go ahead and take credit for being correct.  :doh: :doh: :doh:

I have no interest in being right only trying to offer some help. My responses have nothing to do with backtracking I still think the demand will not be there. When I mentioned demand you said it did not make sense and I added the construction options as a possible explanation of why that low demand option was probably not possible/profitable.

I know you already had the neck. Again I offered the ordering option as a possible alternative solution for you or anyone else contemplating such a move.

Sorry I failed to help you to your satisfaction.

 

[mayfly]

Nice work on the neck!  Please let us know how it plays.

 

[beltjones]

Nice work on the neck!  Please let us know how it plays.

Will do!

So here's the extent of my progress: When I went back the next day to examine the frets, I found that most of the fret ends had come loose from the board. After clamping, gluing, hammering, cursing, and praying, they still won't stay seated.

I think I didn't bend the frets enough with my fret bender before hammering them in, plus the canary wood isn't nearly as hard and grippy as the fretboard woods I'm used to. I'm basically going to have to start the job over again, which means I have to wait for more fretwire to arrive.

 

[Cagey]

Hammering frets tends to flatten them, which is nfg unless you're using something soft/malleable like nickel/silver wire. It's like bump work on sheet metal. Then, with stainless, if they're not radiused properly to start with, fuhgeddaboudit - they'll never seat right. You can glue those babies with the cement from hell and they'll just pop-up/spring back.

 

[beltjones]

You can hammer in stainless frets on curupay or katalox with zero radius and no glue and the wood will grab the fret tangs like a vise. I mean, I would recommend radiusing the fret wire and using glue if you're so inclined, but with wood that hard you might not need it.

For my next attempt with relatively soft canary wood I'll use a tighter radius - like 6.5-7ish" - a press, and I'll pre-glue the fret slot with super glue before pressing the fret in, then let it sit under pressure for a minute or two until the glue cures (and probably hit it with a small shot of accelerator for good measure).

 

[beltjones]

Lest you thought I forgot...

I finally freed up some time to work on this little project. I got the frets radiused, cut to size, and glued / pressed into the fretboard today. Then I beveled and dressed fret ends, leveled, crowned and polished. I even got the neck put back on and two nut slots cut to depth before I had to leave it for the day. I'll finish it up tomorrow and report back.

https://i.imgur.com/pAHNVEI.jpg

 

[beltjones]

It's pretty much all done. It feels great to play on, and even with a low action I'm bending up as far as I want without fretting out. I'm going to let it sit with string tension for a few days before I do the final truss rod / saddle height / intonation adjustment, but for now I'm really happy with how it turned out.

https://i.imgur.com/WMP8x8C.jpg

 

[rgand]

Looks good. Congrats on moving forward with this.

 

[stratamania]

Interested to know how far you can bend tone-wise the B string at the 20th fret. Can it do 2 1/2 steps cleanly?

 

[fdesalvo]

Looking good.

 

[fdesalvo]

Interested to know how far you can bend tone-wise the B string at the 20th fret. Can it do 2 1/2 steps cleanly?

Hendrix's "Red House" - he's gotta be on a 7.5" radius Strat and he sends that B string into the atmosphere near the end of the intro lol.  Then again, he could have telephone cable high action for all I know.

 

[stratamania]

Interested to know how far you can bend tone-wise the B string at the 20th fret. Can it do 2 1/2 steps cleanly?

Hendrix's "Red House" - he's gotta be on a 7.5" radius Strat and he sends that B string into the atmosphere near the end of the intro lol.  Then again, he could have telephone cable high action for all I know.

I'm familiar with that intro, that bend isn't that extreme. Hendrix also used lighter gauge strings and Red House he was tuned down to Eb.

I am thinking more like something in Whole Lotta Love.

 

[spe111]

I've always heard that Hendrix's strings were very high. Don't know if that's actually true or not.

 

[beltjones]

Interested to know how far you can bend tone-wise the B string at the 20th fret. Can it do 2 1/2 steps cleanly?

Yep.

With a capo on the first fret, action at the 12th is 1.5mm on the E and 1.0 on the e. Sometimes people measure string height without a capo on the first fret, and in that case add about 0.25mm to each measurement.

I think if you're one of those people who lowers the action until you can hear buzzing through the amp and then raises it a hair you will likely have issues with fretting out. Otherwise, if you're fretwork is good, it's fine.

I think it's generally accepted that Leo Fender got it "right" with the first few years of any of his designs, and then he pared things back to improve profitability before selling out. In this case, I think 7.25" is better than 9.5", but 9.5" is much easier to level and set up without fretting out, and it makes more sense from a business perspective. But, if you want that vintage Fender feel, and you can do good fret work, there is no reason not to try a 7.25" radius fretboard.

 

[stratamania]

Well, I have had 7.25" over the years and if it works for you great.

I do prefer a lower action and so this is why I prefer either a 12" radius or better a compound radius of some type. The good thing is there are options for all.

 

[beltjones]

Well, I have had 7.25" over the years and if it works for you great.

I do prefer a lower action and so this is why I prefer either a 12" radius or better a compound radius of some type. The good thing is there are options for all.

How low?

 

[stratamania]

About 1mm which is similar to what you mention. But that is not the question.

When you say you are able to get a 2 1/2 step bend without any choking on the B at the 20th fret to make sure we mean the same thing the 20th fret on the B is a G, the 2 1/2 step bend would take that to a C. 

Although you say it can, if the frets are close to that 7.25 radius however well the frets are done the physics of it don't seem likely that bend is possible without choking out.

 

[beltjones]

About 1mm which is similar to what you mention. But that is not the question.

When you say you are able to get a 2 1/2 step bend without any choking on the B at the 20th fret to make sure we mean the same thing the 20th fret on the B is a G, the 2 1/2 step bend would take that to a C. 

Although you say it can, if the frets are close to that 7.25 radius however well the frets are done the physics of it don't seem likely that bend is possible without choking out.

Well, it actually is the question if you say you like a flatter radius because you prefer a low action.

It's fine if you don't believe me, but I don't know what I would have to gain by making this claim. I'll put on a tuner and test to be sure, though.

Otherwise, John Mayer, who plays as well and bends as much as anyone, chose a 7.25" radius for his signature guitar. PRS himself has said in interviews that choking out isn't an issue with properly done frets and a well set-up guitar.