An observation and a thought

[TBurst Std]

Was just pondering this. How many times are Qs asked here and the reply is call the W, mothership, etc. this is most often based upon available, off menu and other W related production abilities.

Why don’t people feel empowered to just call. Potentially 2 reasons:

1. I want immediate knowledge. To this I say give me a break. You’re wanted to assemble a guitar that it will take weeks to get all the parts for. You can’t wait to call?

2. It’s not feasible to call. IE you live outside the US.

To this I put forth 3 suggestions:

A: if asking a Q, note why you can’t call the W

B: for things that fall under point 1, can the W capture these and put them into an extended FAQ

C: for point 2, how about some of us US based people offer to call the W to source the answer. I’ll pony up to call.

 

[Hodgo]

While I admire your intent, I think the execution will be Sisyphean. Newbies gonna newbie. Besides, you can always just email Warmoth if you’re too many time zones away.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

I think that people prefer to hear other’s experience from the customer’s perspective. They can possibly learn a bit more detail and background about all past and presently available options.

Sometimes people are not experienced enough to know exactly what they are looking for, so there is some learning needed as the first step.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

I called in to ask questions before and was told that I could always just email, which I took to mean that email was preferable. Additionally, sometimes forum posts are answered faster than emails.

I've also emailed asking about recommendations for threaded inserts, for example, and they strictly advised against it. So relying on Warmoth's information/advice alone would prevent one from exploring a solution like threaded inserts that others have reported/documented using successfully.

 

[stratamania]

Was just pondering this. How many times are Qs asked here and the reply is call the W, mothership, etc. this is most often based upon available, off menu and other W related production abilities.

Furthermore, the number of times those answers are given are to questions where the answer is available on the website or has already been answered.

I checked Google Earth and there are no motherships visible in Puyallup.

Better to read the website and email if the answer is not available there or from the forum.

 

[aarontunes]

I think that people prefer to hear other’s experience from the customer’s perspective. They can possibly learn a bit more detail and background about all past and presently available options.

I've also emailed asking about recommendations for threaded inserts, for example, and they strictly advised against it. So relying on Warmoth's information/advice alone would prevent one from exploring a solution like threaded inserts that others have reported/documented using successfully.

Yes and yes. People don't always just want Warmoth's facts. They want conversation with people who have experience with things from a guitar/bass player's/luthier's POV.

One of the reasons this place is named "Unofficial" is because you can get answers here that the big W will never give you.

Example:

Question: I like unfinished necks. Is it OK to leave my maple neck unfinished?
Warmoth's answer: A hard finish is required on Maple necks for warranty.
Unofficial's answer: 1 person provides the Warmoth warranty policy, and 10 other people describe their various experiences with leaving their maple necks unfinished, oiling them instead of hard finish, burnishing them, etc.

 

[aarontunes]

I checked Google Earth and there are no motherships visible in Puyallup.

Well, we wouldn't leave it in plain sight, now would we?

 

[Rick]

Unless it's new jersey...

 

[NedRyerson]

I'll add another supposition to the list of reasons for a person's reluctance to just contact W directly.

Trepidation. Fear. Embarrassment.

(I didn't say they were reasonable or logical reasons, just reasons)

Tech support is part of my work, and the number of times I get very vague, introductory-style messages and requests is innumerable. "Hi, I have a problem with my account, can you help me?" "A student can't access this resource. Can you help?" "A teacher can't find one of their students' attendance records."

First off, the reflexiveness with which people end messages with "can you help?" has gotten far beyond annoying. It's so commonplace as to have become punctuation. But that's a personal problem of mine. That's just me griping, so let's move on.

Notice how absolutely zero helpful information is provided in those requests? Which account? Which system? Who's the student? What are they trying to get to? WHO'S THE TEACHER AND WHICH STUDENT??!!!!???

I've come to realize that people do this out of fear of appearing rude and presumptuous. Giving those important details may feel like they're immediately obligating me to do something (which, let's face it, they are because it's my job and they're allowed to). They don't want to seem too forward or demanding, so they dance around the edges to hope that I might deign them with a nod of approval to proceed.

The exponential rise in reliance on non-confrontational, asynchronous communication methods are, in my purely unscientific observation, the leading contributor to this attitude. Texts & DMs. No one calls on the phone. No one strikes up conversation with randoms (unless you're in the US Midwest, in which case they won't shut up!).

People are reluctant to just call W because OMG talk to a person I don't know on the telephone?!!? Are you crazy?!!!???!?!!!?!

People are reluctant to e-mail W because they might get a snotty answer for being perceived as dumb (this one, I do understand, though, because I actually did get a response that could be interpreted as rather snotty, including the "as shown on our website...." which -- quite frankly -- I did not see because it wasn't easy to find and I do that before I have to ask, but not relevant anymore).

There's a fear of confrontation, whether founded or not. Or a fear of being perceived as incompetent for asking what might be elementary questions.

Again, I know this isn't rational. But I'm not talking about rational responses.

 

[Spud]

I'll add another supposition to the list of reasons for a person's reluctance to just contact W directly.

Trepidation. Fear. Embarrassment.

(I didn't say they were reasonable or logical reasons, just reasons)

Tech support is part of my work, and the number of times I get very vague, introductory-style messages and requests is innumerable. "Hi, I have a problem with my account, can you help me?" "A student can't access this resource. Can you help?" "A teacher can't find one of their students' attendance records."

First off, the reflexiveness with which people end messages with "can you help?" has gotten far beyond annoying. It's so commonplace as to have become punctuation. But that's a personal problem of mine. That's just me griping, so let's move on.

Notice how absolutely zero helpful information is provided in those requests? Which account? Which system? Who's the student? What are they trying to get to? WHO'S THE TEACHER AND WHICH STUDENT??!!!!???

I've come to realize that people do this out of fear of appearing rude and presumptuous. Giving those important details may feel like they're immediately obligating me to do something (which, let's face it, they are because it's my job and they're allowed to). They don't want to seem too forward or demanding, so they dance around the edges to hope that I might deign them with a nod of approval to proceed.

The exponential rise in reliance on non-confrontational, asynchronous communication methods are, in my purely unscientific observation, the leading contributor to this attitude. Texts & DMs. No one calls on the phone. No one strikes up conversation with randoms (unless you're in the US Midwest, in which case they won't shut up!).

People are reluctant to just call W because OMG talk to a person I don't know on the telephone?!!? Are you crazy?!!!???!?!!!?!

People are reluctant to e-mail W because they might get a snotty answer for being perceived as dumb (this one, I do understand, though, because I actually did get a response that could be interpreted as rather snotty, including the "as shown on our website...." which -- quite frankly -- I did not see because it wasn't easy to find and I do that before I have to ask, but not relevant anymore).

There's a fear of confrontation, whether founded or not. Or a fear of being perceived as incompetent for asking what might be elementary questions.

Again, I know this isn't rational. But I'm not talking about rational responses.

Ned, I think you have a nice hairdoo.

 

[stratamania]

Well, we wouldn't leave it in plain sight, now would we?

Ah, the old Romulan Cloaking Device trick.

 

[aarontunes]

The exponential rise in reliance on non-confrontational, asynchronous communication methods are, in my purely unscientific observation, the leading contributor to this attitude. Texts & DMs. No one calls on the phone. No one strikes up conversation with randoms (unless you're in the US Midwest, in which case they won't shut up!).

People are reluctant to just call W because OMG talk to a person I don't know on the telephone?!!? Are you crazy?!!!???!?!!!?!

People are reluctant to e-mail W because they might get a snotty answer for being perceived as dumb (this one, I do understand, though, because I actually did get a response that could be interpreted as rather snotty, including the "as shown on our website...." which -- quite frankly -- I did not see because it wasn't easy to find and I do that before I have to ask, but not relevant anymore).

There's a fear of confrontation, whether founded or not. Or a fear of being perceived as incompetent for asking what might be elementary questions.

I think you're right, and I think you're nailing an issue that has become evident in society at large. People generally have become hesitant to talk to one another out of fear that the other person will turn on them like a raging maniac.

Thinking the worst of others or assuming their intentions are bad is a natural human trait called "negativity bias". But I think the internet has amplified it x1000. Just think of the last time you got a text or an email (or read some post on Unofficial Warmoth), and naturally assumed the sender's tone of voice was negative, even though it may not have been.

People need to communicate with each other in person whenever possible, IMO. Otherwise there is just too much "communication" that gets lost or misinterpreted.

Phone is the next best thing.

Written communication would be at the bottom of my list for effectiveness, but it's the thing most people choose nowadays.

 

[Spud]

Aaron, your hairdoo is none too shabby either!

 

[teleme01]

My hesitancy towards calling the w vs asking questions on forum is not wanting to disturb the guys building guitars with annoying what ifs that I won't end up building... iykwim

 

[ghostrider25]

This may sound strange to most, but I have a strange anxiety about phone conversations. I couldn't tell you why exactly, especially because 90% of my job is as a professional meeting attender. Somehow I'm able to flip the switch on for work, but my heart races to make a phone call other than that.

When I can, I much prefer text, email, forum post, carrier pigeon, etc. to an actual phone call.

Even weirder, I'd rather play guitar in front of 1000 people than call a single one of them on the phone

 

[aarontunes]

My hesitancy towards calling the w vs asking questions on forum is not wanting to disturb the guys building guitars with annoying what ifs that I won't end up building... iykwim

No need to worry about that. We don't let the people actually building stuff anywhere near the phones.

 

[aarontunes]

Aaron, your hairdoo is none too shabby either!

See....raging maniac.

 

[aarontunes]

This may sound strange to most, but I have a strange anxiety about phone conversations. I couldn't tell you why exactly, especially because 90% of my job is as a professional meeting attender. Somehow I'm able to flip the switch on for work, but my heart races to make a phone call other than that.

When I can, I much prefer text, email, forum post, carrier pigeon, etc. to an actual phone call.

Even weirder, I'd rather play guitar in front of 1000 people than call a single one of them on the phone

Not that strange to me.

In a situations where "I have the floor", I am (I believe) a very good and outgoing performer. But when I'm in a small group of people, being the center of attention makes me squirm. Nothing worse than when someone at a small get-together says "Aaron, play us something."

Ugh. Just shoot me.

 

[ghostrider25]

Not that strange to me.

In a situations where "I have the floor", I am (I believe) a very good and outgoing performer. But when I'm in a small group of people, being the center of attention makes me squirm. Nothing worse than when someone at a small get-together says "Aaron, play us something."

Ugh. Just shoot me.

Not sure if you're familiar with Brian Regan (comedian) or not, but he's hilarious. I was at one of his shows at Red Rocks which holds ~10k people (IIRC) and I'd wager there were 7k-8k people there. He said something about him having social anxiety and that he's extremely introverted. He said something like, "That may sound weird considering how many people are here but, in this situation, you're all out THERE... and I'm comfortable with that. I've never been to any other normal social gathering setup like this for me."

 

[Rick]

True .... when you get over say, 50 people they disappear.
And people fell out of pratice talking with people. No more walks on the way to the meeting .. i remember one meeting before covid a group of us are walking down a long hallway and i knew it was going to be bad so i put hands on my head and started whistling the theme to bridge over the river Kwai... others in the group started whistling and it was so funny it gave us courage ... now ... the zoom meeting starts but you haven't pre met and shaken out the cob webs ... people forgot.